More Bevel Questions

Ok this is kind of a follow up to another question I asked about an uneven bevel. I am honing a W&B 1/4 hollow with a smile. The bevel was even on the back of the blade but the bevel on the face was uneven. The bevel got much larger tward the middle of the edge. I was told on the last thread that this was due to an uneven spine or uneven pressure applied when honing.

Well I placed the blade on my freshly lapped norton and held it up to the light. The spine is most definately flat on both sides as no light peeks through when it is just lying flat on the hone. I did not have any 1K grit paper on hand for my bench hone so I just went back to doing pyramids on the Norton4/8K. I also used the magic marker trick on the edge of the razor to see where my honing stroke was not making contact. Sure enough I did like 4 passes on the 4K side and none of the magic marker was removed from the heel of the blade... so it is my fault. :cry: When I hone I have found it more difficult to do side to side so I set my stone vertical and hone north to south. My south stroke is great probably because I can see the blade edge comming at me. That bevel is of course nice and even. My north stroke on the stone needs improvment obviously. After about 2 hours of pyramids making sure to go slow on my north stroke, and pay attention to edge contact with the hone; I have made some progress.

The bevel is much better on the face of the blade but it is still very uneven compaired to the bevel on the back of the blade. I went ahead and finished the razor on my bench hone with Boron Carbide, and then Chromium Oxide. I am able to pass the HHT all along the blade, and the shave is pretty good. I know I can get this razor to give a better shave. Will an uneven bevel effect how sharp you can get the razor? Should I go back to the Norton4/8K until the bevel is even on both sides? I am afraid I will have to grind off a lot of metal to achieve this. I do tape the spine so I am not worried about that excessive spine wear.

So what do you think guys? Get some 1k paper and start all over until the bevel is even, or continue to refine the edge I have on the Norton4/8K regardless of the uneven bevel? I know I can get this razor to shave better. I just want some advice on how I should continue. Thanks everyone.

Oh I almost forgot. I mentioned my south stroke on the hone is better then my north. I am pretty sure this is due to being able to see the edge of the blade on my south stroke. Would it be stupid for me to put a mirror oppisite of me while honing? This way I think I could see the edge better on the hone during my north (moving away from me) stroke. Stupid idea or worth trying?

Thanks for these details. It's good to get them because it's easier to picture what's happening.

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Originally Posted by 1adam12

So what do you think guys? Get some 1k paper and start all over until the bevel is even, or continue to refine the edge I have on the Norton4/8K regardless of the uneven bevel? I know I can get this razor to shave better. I just want some advice on how I should continue. Thanks everyone.

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Yeah I would. It'll make thing better all round. if you keep up on the 4k, you'll wear it down a lot and need to lap it very soon.

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Originally Posted by 1adam12

Oh I almost forgot. I mentioned my south stroke on the hone is better then my north. I am pretty sure this is due to being able to see the edge of the blade on my south stroke. Would it be stupid for me to put a mirror oppisite of me while honing? This way I think I could see the edge better on the hone during my north (moving away from me) stroke. Stupid idea or worth trying?

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That's a neat idea and I think it's a good one.

X

1adam12,

I think the only way the bevel would affect the razor's shaving ability is if the hitches in your honing stroke go uncorrected. If the uneven bevel is a result of uneven pressure, then the finished edge will also be uneven--sharper in some places than other.

But if the bevel is uneven because you were using an inconsistent stroke in a previous life, and you've since corrected that, I don't see why it would make a difference. The edge is what shaves, and you can set a good edge on an uneven bevel.

It would be worth checking to see if the edge is hitting the hone at every point in the stroke. Lay the razor on the hone again, but this time instead of looking at the spine, look at the edge. Is the entire edge flat on the hone, or are parts of the blade raised a bit off the surface? If that's the case, you may have to do some creative honing to get the blade evenly sharp.

It could be the razor, not your stroke. :shrug: Usually when I'm having this problem it's because of a warped blade or uneven spine wear.

Josh

JoshEarl,


The blade has a smile to it. When you lay it flat on the hone the toe and heel do not completely make contact due to the smile. I have been using the rocking, or "rolling hone" method to make sure I sharpen the entire edge. I corrected my honing stroke enough to get the entire blade shave sharp. It passes the HHT on every part of the blade. I am able to shave with it, but it is not producing the BBS I know it is capable of. I guess my real question was weather to proceed with heavy honing until the bevel is completely even; or just continue to further refine the edge I have. I did not want to pull my hair out trying to refine the edge I have, if it was impossible to bring it to the next level due to the bevel on the face of the blade being a bit uneven. Thanks for the responses everyone.

The bevel can be uneven or wavy if the razor's profile is unevenly ground. This is the case with most razors there. This happens due to the nature of the grinding process, when the master grinder feeds the blade between the two grinding stones. This is done by hand, with no guides, and this process is very precise.

You can tell this by observing the reflections on the belly of the razor. If it's wavy, that's the case. Now, when razors are laving the factory, they are honed on a horizontal wheel, but the razor is still rocked back and forth, alternating sides. After that, it goes on the Belgian hone, with X pattern. That is why the grind difference and variation is not shown, because the razor is never honed lying flat on the hone, and pushed straight across the hone.

Now, if you do that, when restoring old razors, you will get bevel with uneven thickness, showing the grind profile of the razor. The point is that no razor has ideally straight edge. And that's one of the reasons for using the X pattern, to evenly sharpen both of the sides, on every point of the edge... Also, that was the reason the hones were made narrow in the past, to equally sharpen the edge along it's length...


cheers,
Nenad