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I have a set of knives that need sharpening. I need to know what I need and how to sharpen these? What type of hones do I need. I have a dual stone I bought at Home Depot; not sure what grit. How would I use a guide for sharpening it. Would appreciate advice.
Thanks
I am interested in this as well. I was hoping that the stones I bought could do double duty on the kitchen knives. That's what I told the wife anyway :)
what hones do you have?
Nortons, naniwas , shaptons will work.
If you have large enough coticule it will do too.
Its, like with razors, all about muscle memory, you need to keep the angle consistent, set the bevel and polish if you like.
Here a nice vid series for beginners:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Chefkniv...12/TwfW_PXWBJs
sharpening knives is a different process to sharpening razors. I use a Nortons aluminium oxide combination oil stone to sharpen my knives. Its about 200 grit.
I have never worried too much about getting them razor sharp. Just getting to the point that it can glide through an old juicy tomato with out having to exert any pressure during cutting.
You can go a bit extra, if you want to get them to chef sharpness or a little more to get to sushi chef sharpness but for most kitchens this is a bit extreme.
just curious how do you feel when you cut an onion with that knife?Quote:
Originally Posted by hendersr
thanks for the vids !
If i could get any chef knife it would be this one...Amazon.com: Shun Alton Angled 8-Inch Chefs Knife: Kitchen & Dining hell id even shave with it. :)
For sharpening a particular knife the first time: 325 and 600 grit will do fine for most knives; 600 and/or 1200 for touching up ones you've already worked on. For really fine knives that will take and hold an 8k edge....well... add an 8k hone if you really want to show off.
I carry a 600 in my back pocket all the time; for touch-ups. I used to know a fine hunter who sharpened his knives with just a file. If starting new, I would buy a Fallkniven DC4, lap the ceramic side, and be done with it.
I think your dual stone is probably an oilstone and it might work fine for kitchen knife work, depending on it's grits. Unless you catch HAD...
Here's a link with more info: Knife Maintenance and Sharpening - eG Forums
Many kitchen stores and good butcher shops have a professionalQuote:
Originally Posted by binder
sharpen knives once a month. If the butcher recommends
it then take advantage.
Sharpening works best with a consistent angle. A guide helps
but most folk can do it by hand. Make a 20 degree angle
on paper and aspire to hold the blade at that angle. Soak
your Home Depot hone and give the knife five strokes.
Remember the magic marker trick. It works for kitchen knives too.
As an aside my Chinese 12K refreshes my kitchen knives
much more and much better than I would have ever thought.
binder,
For my kitchen knives that are in reasonable nick, I use my 600, 1000 & 1500 grit waterstones. If any heavy duty remedial work is needed for the edge, I use a DMT 325.
During use, I use a 14" smooth steel to whet the edges.
Have fun !
Best regards
Russ
Thanks for the replies.
I watched the videos at Youtube: Chefknivestogo. It gives me a better idea of technique. He finishes with a 6000K stone. That seems sharp.
I'm also reading the article: 'Knife Maintenance and Sharpening - eG Forums'
The knives I have are Edelstahl stainless steel. The bolster goes to the edge and a little beyond. It is fairly thick. Is this a problem with sharpening?
Does someone know of a good place to buy hones. I will probably use a 1k at least and maybe some higher ones if I start sharpening razors.
Binder,
Before I became a teacher, I spent a long time as a Chef. Not the fake, I work at The Keg chef, but the real "I've been trained, broken and molded" deal.
The magic marker test is great for starting out. Make your line a bit thicker, so you can definately see if you're dropping or raising your angle as you sharpen. As you may know, unlike razors, the knife spine is off of the stone.
The factory setting on most kitchen knives is between 15 and 20 degrees. As has been mentioned, use a protractor on a recipe card or piece of cardboard, cut out at 20 degree angle, and place your knife against it and the stone to see where you should be.
There are many ways to do this, but I always preferred to use long and fluid strokes, from the toe to the bolster. I never felt comfortable with segmenting the blade and doing "back and forth" strokes, or circles. Not that they don't work, they just were not comfortable for me.
I use a 220 to take out any dings from animal bones or whatever. A 1k to a TNT, then a 4k to a TPT. I finish on an 8K. All of my kitchen stones are Norton waterstones. Lap them before you start, and after you're finished. Long and fluid strokes. When I'm all done with the stones, I go to a Diamond steel, for 5 or 6 strokes, and finish on a Dickoron saphire butcher's steel for 20 to 25 laps.
Many of my old colleagues would sharpen differently. There are many ways to get to the same point. Just wanted to share what works for me....I remember being an apprentice in some kitchens, and feeling embarrased about not being able to keep my knives where I wanted them.
Good luck.
Maxi
**Don't want to offend anyone. Please don't take offence to The Keg comment. I like their steak, and they make a good product in their market.**
For me it depends what kind of kitchen knife to work with. With very dull edges i start from about 600 grit nameless Japanese stone and go on higher. With bread knives i stop after 3000 and for the rest i go up to 6000. I finish every knife with leather wheel (sort of a strop). I do not have oil stones. I use same low and medium grit stones with razors as i use with my other knives.
When sharpening kitchen knives (and work knives as well), keeping the honing angle constant is a key to success. And just like with razors, practice, time and patience helps getting better. Once the knife cuts easily you know you're done.
Arkansas stones are excellent for sharpening knives. I use a 20 degree angle, give or take...and usually finish on a BBW...They will pass the HHT...:tameshigiri: Ardennes actually has a BBW and a Carbo stone glued to a small paddle..I keep one in my kitchen and use the BBW side for refreshing them...It works great....
Maxi's post is a good one to reread.
A steel can be used in two ways, If you have never used on
let it hang down vertically and let it touch a cutting board
then draw the knife down toward the cutting board never
placing your hand in danger. Do remember the angle you
used to hone it, hold your angle template up as a reminder.
And yes you can use a steel the way a butcher does. It
helps to have someone to show you.
I like my extra fine diamond steel now that I have learned to
use it less often. It does not replace a regular steel but does
tidy the edge up nicely.
So here is the question. I bought a set of stones so I can someday sharpen my straight razors. Can I hone and stop my kitchen knives with the kit I bought for straights?
Example 220/1k, 4k/8k, flattening stone/prep stone, and a leather strop? Or do I need to also get a steel for kitchen knifes?
You are good to go with one possible exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoki
You have all that you need to sharpen razors and kitchen knives.
You will want this and that but as far as need you are good to go.
Oh yes, the possible exception is a cutting board which BTW will profit from
applications of mineral oil. The same mineral oil many of us use to
keep corrosion at a minimum on our razors. A worthy cutting board
is as important for keeping a kitchen knife sharp as hones and a steel is.
How do you keep the same angle from the toe to bolster. It seems hard because of the end of the blade being curved?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxi
Thanks
If the long fluid strokes are repeatable the angle will take care of itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by binder
The toe can have a different angle... sharpness depends on
a consistent hone stroke as much or more than anything.
Review the above post that mentions using a magic marker on
the cutting edge to keep track of how the knife and hone
interact....
I'll try to address two things here.
First, Shoki:
A strop is to a razor, as a steel is to a knife.
Each time you SHARPEN your knife, you use your touch up stones or sharpening stones, much like your razors.
In between sharpenings, the knife's "teeth" become crooked. The steel is what straightens the teeth, just as a strop realigns the teeth on a razor.
Every time you use a knife, it should be run for a couple laps on a steel.
A Diamond Steel in the kitchen world, is basically the same concept as a strop with CrOX on it. It is used for quick touch ups when you don't need a full sharpen.
Again, like razors, you can spend obscene amounts of money on knives and keeping them sharp. Basic necessities; 1 and 4k stones, and a steel.
Binder:
The knife is long, and the stone is short and narrow in comparison. If you have a friend or partner who will lend you an extra set of hands, try this.
Have them hold your 20 degree cardboard guide on the stone. Place the tip of your knife on the top of the cardboard, and proceed to make an ultra slow stroke for the full length of the blade, ensuring that the blade touches the cardboard, and the cardboard touches the stone. This will allow you to concentrate on where your elbows are, how your shoulders feel, and what your wrists look like. When you are learning to sharpen, just as learning to strop, its best to make note of whats happening, and where, and when. It makes things easier down the road.
Your elbow and wrist angles will change as you push the knife in a sweeping curve across the stone. It's almost like doing some form of Tai Chi movement.
I hope this was able to help both of you.
Maxi
Hi,
An observation:
It seems that most 'domestic' steels are more like sharpeners these days, than 'edge aligners'.
E.g. diamond coated steels, striated ceramic rods etc.
Many moons ago, when I did a lot of meat cutting (I worked in a slaughter house), we used only the finest surface finished steels (so called 'smooth steels' in the UK), and some used just highly polished steel rods (as per the American 'meat-packers' steels).
I must admit, I do now use diamond & ceramic 'steels' to touch up my blades, and use the smooth steel for daily use.
Have fun !
Best regards
Russ
You might find that the Naniwa stones dish out quite fast if you use them for knives. They're fairly soft stones and I find the 1k in particular dishes pretty fast when I use it.
The Shaptons work well for knives though..!
I was going to make a comment similar to Stubear's...
OK, and I will. When I sharpen my home knives I tend to lean on the knife fairly heavily to begin with. I use a Norton India combo and make circles on the coarse side, wipe it, turn it over, oil the fine side and make long srokes - heel to tip. Once I can catch my thumb nail with the edge for its entire length, I wipe the India fine off, put the cover back on the box, file it away, and take out an Arkansas to finish the edge. On that stone I use the same long heel to tip stroke with gentle pressure and test the edge with my thumb pad. Once satisfied with the edge I wash the blade with soap and water to get the oil off, wipe it, and throw it into the drawer with all the other knives. :nono:
:idea: Or rather rack it paying heed to the newly improved edge.
I've made wood boxes for all my stones, but none are mahogany and none of the stones are glued in ala Charnleys. So with the lack of glue I can flip the stone over to use either the coarse or fine India or work at wearing out both sides of the novaculite (these stones seem to just smile at my best efforts in that vein).
I'm sure I'm not as fussy about kitchen knives as many of you probably are, but they will slice tomatoes, cube stew meat, render carrots and celery into smallish pieces, and dice onions well enough for my cooking attempts. I haven't tried to shave a peach yet, or sculpt an ice cube - so I admittedly have a ways to go.
:beer2:
I decided to restore an old kitchen knife I have, but funds are tight, so here's my super el cheapo method.
The knife is about 17-18 years old and so the edge wasn't very straight at the heel of the blade from being "sharpened" with a chef's steel many many times. I dremeled it straight, sue me lol. The bevel on the edge was pretty bad for the same reason. I have a stone from Canadian Tire, it's something like 400/800 or maybe 600/1200, I can't remember the grits or how much I paid (under $20). Soaked it for a bit and did most of the bevel setting with the rougher side and got the bevel perfect with the fine side. Then I stretched two layers of old t-shirt fabric over a piece of wood and put some 2000 grit sandpaper on top of the fabric, only doing spine leading strokes to clean the edge. Then just the fabric with Turtle Wax rubbing/polishing compound rubbed into it again only spine leading strokes (I actually put the rubbing compound in the fabric and started using that before the sandpaper but remembered I had some 2000 paper and used it, the layer of rubbing compound definitely made the surface smoother). Finished up by stropping on my pants then on my arm. It's now able to shave my arm hair and cut damn near silently through a sheet of paper. Total cost was under $30.