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Noobie here from Melbourne Australia. Been using straight razors for a few yrs now and wanted to get into making straight razors. Wanted to know if there will be a market for my custom razors. Is it worth spending the dollars on grinders etc to start my journey into the business of customs from down under.?
Welcome to the forum. As an outsider with no intention of buying a custom straight razor, I'd have to say there is no dearth of custom/semi custom makers at the moment. I think it is a case of there is always room for one more till there isn't sort of thing. If you decide to go for it the best of luck to you.
Bob
Thanks for the welcoming Bob. I guess it's a matter of deciding and just take it as it goes I guess.
Why not draw up some concepts and/or make a non funtional prototype, post some pictures and guage the feedback.
Hey john, welcome aboard.
I’ve made half a dozen razors (for my own amusement and to give me razors to practice my honing), and even if you have fair mechanical aptitude the learning curve can be step (and time consuming). I didn’t dive in at the deep-end, instead using the basic tools I already had to see if I liked grinding razors. You could end up spending lot of money to get enough equipment so that you could produce razors in an economically viable way.
There are already a couple of Australia custom makers. “Boxer Custom Razors” and “DC blades” come immediately to mind (the proprietors of which are on this forum) as does “DJ razors” for a more mass produced type product.
The weak Australian dollar makes exporting more lucrative, but it may be hard to find a style niche, or achieve the level of workmanship needed to compete with the established makers.
I would suggest making a couple of razors, using your own minimal tools or at one of the courses that some local bladesmiths run (Tharwa Valley Forge runs some occasionally) to see if it’s the thing for you before spending big.
Great advice Dr Dalton. I know of boxer but not dc blades. Will follow up on more searching. As for grinding and such I'm a big perfectionist and I know I can achieve to get out a quality piece. Time is really wat i dont have in hand Having 2 kids under 4. Getting feed back from u guys here really inspires me to move ahead and take on this journey.
The simplest answer is if you make good product there will be interest. Making good functional straight razor will take time to learn, investment in quality tools, and also talent. This is not an overnight endeavor, and unless you are really good it is not going to be a moneymaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAUS
Attachment 234169 my pride and joy
You have posed a somewhat interesting question. It is a very complex process, one that not only requires a fair outlay in cash, but also there are other things that you will need. Probably the most important of those will be an experienced mentor, that is already a master of cutlery making. You will also need time to master the trade. In the end if you considered both your outlay of time to get to a place of marketable skill and the tools of the trade and a place to work them, in order to actually make money at it, I expect that you will need to make more than just razors. I live in an area where there is an abundance of carvers, caring in wood, precious metals and stone. If I were to go down that same path, I would expect that my bread and butter would be in carving tools, not razors, but my passion would be fine edge tools of all sorts. There are very large blade smith gatherings in Canada and the US, I expect similar things happen Down Under. Go check them out meet some people, perhaps find a mentor and begin to dabble, so you can better understand the paths to your journey.
Let me say that if profit is your motivation, then no. Don't bother. At the risk of sounding blunt: you don't know what you are getting into.
If you want to make razors commercially you need quite some equipment. You will need to do a lot of work before you become good enough to get decent prices. It's a money sink.
And then there is the cost of an accountant, miscellaneous costs and the fact that whatever you have left at the end of the year is subject to income tax.
Inventory is also quite expensive. Or it can be. I've been incorporated two years now. My net profit so far was a couple hundred annually. Taking my inventory into account, i am still several thousand in the hole.
The reason i got into this is that i wanted to take my hobby to a professional level and make it pay for itself while following my passion. And so far it is doing just that while enabling me to do things i could not do otherwise. Btw i had been dveloping skills and knowledge for almost a decade before making the jump.
I am all for following passion. But if you ask me if you can jump in without a lot of skill with the idea of making money of custom work if you don't even know if you can make blades or have the patience and dedication for investing years of your time... then no.
Passion leads to skill which may eventually lead to profit. Sometime in the far future. You can't skip to that last bit
My first advise would be get a 55 gallon drum to throw all your mistakes in and second would be find a market for steel wool because you will be making a lot of it.
My first real usable blade probably cost me 10,000 USD
Enjoy the process and make a few nice blades for you and your friends.
:brunoisright
don't understand how you can spend that much to get out 1 razor that u can call a usable blade. Did u spend lots on equipment or took you longer then others to fine tune ur skills. Any before and after pics of were u were and how far u come after spending so much money. Would love to see thanks ��Quote:
Originally Posted by 430pat
:brunoisright
My 2 cents, A skilled knife maker can take a 1" cheep Belt grinder and make straight razors, given enough time. Razors can be forged with a coffee can forge for pennies
I would think with the highly technical belt grinders Made For Razor grinding make fast accurate work compared to the old opposing face grinders, so, spending a ton of $$ is easily done if one is not careful.
Craftsmen of all works Go On their Own Merit, if you really want it You can do it or have it.
Hi and welcome. Take a good look through the forge forum and make a few decisions on how you want to start. Are you going to forge or just grind out of stock. How do you want to temper. What grind are you going to start with. Hollow ground is going to take more equipment and skills. What equipment do you have already. At worst there is always a market on ebay
+1 it definitely is not a soul source of income,
unless you can devote whole weeks on end to your work grinding, building, materials sourcing, advertising & building a client base etc
practice, practice & more practice this is where the initial costs rise if you rush & make a pile of RSO's they still cost the same for materials & heat treating etc your the time it takes you is your only saving as your skills improve & become more efficient.
knives are easier to make & less chance of mistakes as when grinding below 10 thou" thicknesses
but I say take your time, build up to it & keep your costs & expectation in check & give it a go
you will never ever know, if you never ever go
The key post was that of Bruno IMO, and the key word was 'passion.' I was an ironworker for over 20 years and decided I wanted to be a pro tattoo artist. I began in my basement on my own legs, then moved on to friends. I figured if I learned to do it well enough before I ran out of friends I'd have a shot at going pro. This was before the internet BTW, and when a pro tattooer would throw you out of the shop bodily if you told him ..... 'I'm thinking about learning to tattoo.'
But I had passion, and apparently a bit of talent and a lot of luck, because I made my living in street shops, tattooing for 23 years before I finally hung it up. So if you have a passion for it, whether you'll ever 'go pro' or not, give it a shot. The joy is in the journey, not the destination. :gl:
not thinking about forging . Stock removal is Wat I was thinking about. Wat my intentions are to get a great handmade product and cheap for the buyer. Not sure if u have seen few vids on YouTube. Portland razor co. ? Something on the lines of that if that explains Wat I'm going for. Ty for replyingQuote:
Originally Posted by eddy79
If you want to make cheap razors you are going to have small margins while competing with hart, grim dovo and others. Profit per hour will be very low even when you invest in expensive grinders and other equipment.
And as i said don't forget taxes, social security and other costs of business.
If you want to know if you can do this, i suggest you run the numbers and consult an accountant before investing your money to see what the financial reality is.
Making razors is also going to cost you a lot of time, and you don't even know if you'll be good and just as important : you'll have to love doing the same thing over and over. Grinding and finishing dozens of razors every month. If you end up hating the repetitive hard work you'll hate it and quit.
if you really want to do this, learn to make razors first. Track the costs and time spent on the various steps in the process. Run the numbers with an accountant.
Only then will you have the information you really need to make a decision from a business pov.
Great info guys thanks alot. Wat u think would be the best way to start off developing the skills to grind. Anyone here know Wat is a good start off grinder that would be available to get my hands on. Nothing to break the bank. thats also good enough to start as a hobby like someone said earlier. I might not like the idea or have the skill to grind for a living. I do have a full time job as a fishmonger and I handle knives but that doesn't mean I good at grinding. Lol
My first grinder was one of those little ones you can use for sanding doors and floors. You can mount them upside down and have a flat grinding plate as well as a two inch wheel to work on. They cost only about 100 - 150$.
I think harbor freight also makes very affordable 40" belt grinders.
These things are pretty good value for money.
Also for practice use something like 1084. It is very cheap, heat treatment is foolproof and you can buy it annealed which makes drilling and stock removal a lot easier.
Also for heat treatment plenty of people here can help you with that. I will do it for free if you pay shipping. Probably there are people here from oz who are much closer. That way you don't have to worry about all things at the same time.
hills heat treatment in bayswater is the one most guys (including some professional knife makers) use (and recommend) here in oz of they don't/can't do their own.
Sweet. Thanks. As for the heat treatment I've got a place close by that can do it for a small fee. Just takes few weeks to get ur stock back. But that's not a worry. Bruno Wat type of size contact wheels r more commonly used for hollow grinding 6/8 . 7/8 razors.? I've found few cheap belt grinders on ebay but not sure there the right ones to get a start on buddy
Yeah I no of them. Thanks Dalton. Also Wat grinders r available in oz bud that u know of. All the information out there r merican grinders. Any u think is great to start off with. Or a site u recommend for meQuote:
Originally Posted by DrDalton
Personally i prefer 4" for most grinding but in terms of non specific hollow grinding, anything from 2" to 8" will do.
John,
you might want to take a look at these noob grinders sold by GAMECO in Aus & built in Aus by a couple of the lads from the Australia Blade Forum plenty of reviews on AFB about them also,
Gameco is good Aussie source of materials etc they mainly knife related but still plenty of useful bits for Str8 makers also
Noob Grinder Packages - Artisan Supplies
John,
you might want to take a look at these noob grinders sold by GAMECO in Aus & built in Aus by a couple of the lads from the Australia Blade Forum plenty of reviews on AFB about them also,
Gameco is good Aussie source of materials etc they mainly knife related but still plenty of useful bits for Str8 makers also
Noob Grinder Packages - Artisan Supplies
Yeah I've seen there stuff. Not to sure if there o1 flat stock is the size that I was after. We're do u get ur steel from buddy. Do u recommend gameco for grinders heat treatment machines only or do u thing the stock for scales is good aswel? We're is there better choice of steel u think for straight razor making
Just a thought guys. Not sure if it's a great idea but I do have a lathe at hand. Also wife makes soaps wen she can and there great. Wat I'm trying to say is would there a market for shaving brushes? Also that could help with funds to get me a sweet grinder to do my straight razor making?
There seems to be a reasonably healthy market for handmade brushes, i dont think the outlay is that great so if it didn't work out it wouldn't be a huge loss.
That's so true. I've used the lathe before but it's been a while. To be honest it's my dad's and it's just sitting there. Y not try and make something. Any idea on were to get nots from . That would be my only issue
In most cases, when manufacturing product, the key to profits is cost control. One of the things that is vary hard to balance is the ability to offer a good selection while keeping inventory carrying costs low. You need to be able to buy raw material in high enough quantities to have good discounts on your materials. but not have to buy in enough quality that your inventory sits for long period. Your inventory needs to turn at high enough rate that you are not insuring dead inventory or paying interest on goods you are just storing. Productivity and marketing are also very important areas to look at. Getting good pictures and a quality website can be serious challenges, and the wet shaving community is a predominately online group.
Starting small and growing into a business gives you the ability to flex and change, learn and grow. I say do what you can to start and grow and flex to where the market tells you to go. Remember the journey is the important part, so if you don't focus on a destination, it makes the journey easier to enough.
Mate Gameco don't sell O1 in thick enough sections yet you need to go to Bohler or import from O.S. for O1 in 5mm thick plus sections
as noted most of there gear is knife related so the scale stock is usually 140mm not 150mm like we need
but take a look at their site do the research find your materials etc, steel is in knife making steel section
as previously mentioned time is required to research, source, fab, advertise & distribute your products
this is all part of the hours put in to make the first sellable product and why it is so expensive to make the first item.
rs-online Australia sell 01 steel (as "Tool Steel Rectangular Bar") in suitable sizes (e.g. 5x25x500mm) (Same day despatch on Steel Rods, Bars, Tubes & Hexagonals parts | RS Components)
It also gives you the opportunity to figure out what you are good at, and what you like doing. And in the end that is the only way you can sustain it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Currently I am working full time again, which means I have to squeeze the last minute out of every day, which means I am often up well past midnight in my workshop. Hard to do that if you'd rather do anything else but be up and work.
costs for inventory can only be recouped when the material is used from the inventory, not when you buy it. It is very easy to build inventory quicker than money is coming in. Especially if you start working with expensive materials. If you plan plan on making consumer items, margins become extremely important.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Heck yeah! Make some Australian steel!
