Hello from Midwest, USA: a non-AD Japanese knife enthusiast ready for straight razors

Intro
I'm in my mid-twenties and am currently living in Lincoln, Nebraska, but I'm from near Los Angeles, California. I've been planning to switch to a straight razor for 2 years, and my electric shaver finally died (after a meager 3 years of service). I can't say how excited I am to make the switch.

When it comes to the tools i use, I put a lot of value on craftsmanship, longevity, and joy of use—which led me to Japanese knives... and now, the straight razor. It's hard to be proud of and enjoying using a throwaway tool that was machine-manufactured in some soulless factory and requires no skill to use.

I'm also a minimalist—which is why I only have a single knife in my kitchen: a 240mm gyuto. I want to live by the same principle with straight razor shaving. I've already made the first step by purchasing a Puma 83 (photo at bottom) from another SRP member*, which I believe is a quality razor that can last a lifetime. But unfortunately, I haven't yet shaved with it... I still need a strop.

Request for Advice
Since beginners are very likely to cut up their first strop, I'm thinking of starting with either the Illinois 827 or Illinois 127, which are recommended in the guide for buying a beginner's set on a budget. I'd be eager to hear which one you think is more forgiving to a beginner or more suitable to my razor (page 29 of this old Puma booklet recommends using a strop made of Russian leather, which the Illinois 127 is allegedly made of). Or, if you think I should be considering other strops, then I'd like to know which other ones I should consider.

Anyway, I'm glad to be here and I look forward to learning about straight razor shaving and passing on what I learn.

*Badgister, whom I highly recommend

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Welcome to SRP. Read the entire library here and watch as many videos as possible. You will soon be shaving like the rest of us. I hope you drove a stake through your electric shaver's heart to make sure it's dead.

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Originally Posted by vileru

I'm also a minimalist—

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We've never had a minimalist before. :rofl2: Welcome to SRP. That Puma razor you have there is a great one. From their 'golden era'. I respect the minimalist approach, though I've never been able to attain to it myself. I would however recommend at least two (three even better) razors for a backup in case your #1 shaver needs to be sent out for honing or for repair. Also good to rotate a couple or a few. Seems to make them last longer between honings ....... unless I'm just imagining that. :thinking:

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Originally Posted by vileru

Request for Advice
]page 29 of this old Puma booklet[/URL] recommends using a strop made of Russian leather

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From what I've read 'Russian' strops aren't made in Russia, nor do they use leather imported from Russia. It is rather a tanning/finishing process which ended up being named as such. There is some debate on that I guess, but here is a post on the topic. If I was going to recommend a strop it would be a 'beginner's' strop from one of the vendors who sponsor this site. Usually relatively inexpensive, and not a heartbreaker if you nick it up. Most of us do. :gl:

Welcome virleru ! Although some may disagree, I believe you will not find much of a difference in results with any well made strop. What you will find in various strops of the same size is a difference in "draw"or the feel in the interaction of the blade with the strop. This draw,and whether it light or heavy is primarily a matter of preference . I, for example ,prefer a medium draw with most of my blades. The follow thread discusses strop "draw". http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...aw-please.html A word to the wise and heed JimmyHad's advice,do not spend to much on your first strop as you are likely to nick or slice it up during your first year.

Welcome to the forum and good luck on your journey.

Welcome to the best shaving forum in the world! And have fun with this new (to you) sport.

I, too, started down this road because of a minimalist train of thought: Shave with a modern cartridge razor, threw out a cart' every month, hated watching money get tossed, brainstormed from "self maintainable" to "how... did they shave before the industrial revolution?? There in lies my answer!".

But, alas! There is a learning curve, and each face is different. So I expanded my self-imposed limit of just a razor or two. But that doesn't mean I will spend a fortune to find what wet shaving accoutrement will "fit my face". Some things should never be skimped on. But that is for another discussion. My point is that I moved on to trying to restore razors that are "fixer-uppers" (eventually, I'll have one or more in good enough shape to make my money back :banghead: lol). This gives me both a way to try a wider variety of razors on the cheap-er, as well as a hobby that the wife won't hassle me about like she does video games :tu.

I'm rambling now. So I'll just say: feel free to ask questions!

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and advice, especially about Russian leather and strop draw. I'm curious, though, does the kind of strop you use affect how long it'll take between honings?

As for the dead electric shaver, I won't drive a stake through its heart since I'd probably just end up hurting myself. But I can assure you that there will be no funeral and it shall not be missed.

Hi and welcome aboard. Strop draw wont affect how long a razor goes between honing but technique will. The Illinois 827 is Russian leather and the linen/canvas is ment to be factory impregnated with (zinc from memory) something that helps keep the razor going longer. Use of a pasted strop will help stretch out time between honing. A strop with replacement leather and linen is also a good way to start. Just replace what you need to when you're finished nicking it up. Good luck and any questions feel free to ask

Welcome from SE Washington State.

I like the minimalist approach as that's what I did when I first started. NOTE: I said when I 'FIRST' started. :w

The Illinois 827 is a great strop. It's what I use right after honing but it works great for a daily strop. As mentioned it's not made in Russia but it's the tanning and finishing method. There is a 'pattern' that I find quite nice to work with.

With that said, I have heard of some arriving in poor shape. They shouldn't have any flaking or cracking. Any doubt ask for a replacement.

There are several places that you can purchase them including Amazon.

If you have patience then you will succeed with learning this age old art.

I will add that even if you are experienced with sharpening knives, I would encourage you to forget about learning to hone for at least a year. In that time you will be learning to master the stropping, lathering and of course the shaving curves.

As a former meat cutter I knew that honing a razor wouldn't be any problem at all. Well it was a big problem and I had waited about a year and a half. Once mastered honing for one's self is very rewarding but shaving with an inferior edge is very disappointing to say the least.

Enjoy the ride. It's a long strange trip but well worth the journey. :tu

Eventually I'd like to learn how to hone, but I've already planned to wait until 2017 to do so. I travel to Japan often and my next trip is scheduled for 2017 (I lived there for a couple years and my wife is Japanese), and I'm assuming I can get some good Japanese stones cheaper there.

I currently use a 1000 grit King stone that I bought last winter in Japan to keep my kitchen knife sharp, but I assume I'll need finer grits for a straight razor (not to mention, I want my knife sharper, too).

Do people who sharpen knives and straight razors generally use the same stones for both? Fine grit stones aren't cheap, so I want to use the same stones for both if I can.

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Originally Posted by vileru

Eventually I'd like to learn how to hone, but I've already planned to wait until 2017 to do so. I travel to Japan often and my next trip is scheduled for 2017 (I lived there for a couple years and my wife is Japanese), and I'm assuming I can get some good Japanese stones cheaper there.

I currently use a 1000 grit King stone that I bought last winter in Japan to keep my kitchen knife sharp, but I assume I'll need finer grits for a straight razor (not to mention, I want my knife sharper, too).

Do people who sharpen knives and straight razors generally use the same stones for both? Fine grit stones aren't cheap, so I want to use the same stones for both if I can.

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You can as long as you lap (flatten) the stone when necessary. You would do this whether or not you only honed razors, but especially if honing both knives and razors. Wet/dry sandpaper can be used on a flat surface, or a good diamond plate. Personally I use my 325 diamond plate to flatten stones, and to sharpen my kitchen knives.

Since you have the advantage of going to directly to Japan you can probably get better deals, at least saving on shipping, and maybe customs fees. Look for Atoma diamond plates and Suehiro finishing stones, The Suehiro Gokumyo 20K is the cat's whiskers for a final finisher. Naniwa SuperStones or Chosera, Shapton GlassStones or Shapton Pro are also well thought of.

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.

To put things in perspective about the difference between honing a razor and sharpening a knife: The bevel is generally set on a 1000 grit hone and finished anywhere between 8000 and 30000. NOTE: You can't give a grit designation to natural stones. Plain and Simple.

With that said I could live off of my 8K edge for the rest of my life. However I do have a Naniwa 12K that I love the edge off of, but I have been using a Zulu Grey for most of the edges that I do.

As has been pointed out you 'can' use the same hones for both your knife and your razor but I prefer to use a separate honing setup for knives.

You will quickly learn that 99.99% of EVERYTHING about this age old art is Personal Preference. And that applies to hones and what gives the 'Best' edge. Some steels won't hold up to a 20 or 30K hone but give great shaves off of a 12K.

If you can find a member near you who can meet with you and help you with the basics and later with honing, that would indeed be the Cat's Meow! :tu

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

With that said I could live off of my 8K edge for the rest of my life.

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I was vilified on Reddit for my ignorance by making the claim that an 8k can produce a satisfactory shave.

We are all minimalist for the first few weeks then things happen...lol

There is a razor meet in Iowa May 28th I think, you will have to check on the get together pages

http://straightrazorpalace.com/get-t...questions.html

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I was vilified on Reddit for my ignorance by making the claim that an 8k can produce a satisfactory shave.

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I too hear that Crap all the time! However I standby my statement.

While I do have a Naniwa 12K and a Zulu Grey, If I were to drop and break either of them and didn't have the funds to replace them I could easily live off of my Norton 8K edge for the rest of my life.

However; If I were to drop and break my Norton 4/8K I'd eat peanut butter sandwiches day in and day out to save up the funds to get another one.

Those who are disbelievers haven't learned to use the hone (in my opinion). Also a certain well respected Pro Honer here at SRP confided that he'd honed professionally for many years with only the Norton 8K as a finisher and never had a single complaint.

I might add that all those barbers out there that so for so many years used a Barber Hone (5- 8K max) to maintain their razors had very happy customers.

I believe I'm in good company. :tu

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Originally Posted by rodb

We are all minimalist for the first few weeks then things happen...lol

There is a razor meet in Iowa May 28th I think, you will have to check on the get together pages

http://straightrazorpalace.com/get-t...questions.html

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The various razor disorders are capable of being transmitted over the internet. Rod is sneaking up on warning you that it can be incurable. If you show up at the Iowa meet, I guarantee you will be doomed quicker than the next Zombie disaster can take over the world. The Minnesota guys brought it to the Midwest. It's all their fault.

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Originally Posted by Mike Blue

The Minnesota guys brought it to the Midwest. It's all their fault.

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...says the guy who hosted what I believe was the first Minnesota meet-up.

Unfortunately, I'll be in either France or Spain* during the Iowa meetup. Are there any other Midwest events that would be a reasonable day trip for me besides the Iowa one?

As for 2017, I'm thinking of getting a combination stone, maybe the Naniwa 3000/8000. However, a lot of people on knife forums recommend against combination stones since they can split, but I'm doubtful that it's that likely of a scenario. Anyone have experience with them?

I'm thinking anything above 8000 would be nice, but unnecessary for a high quality shave. At that point, I suspect I'd just be chasing after "the perfect edge". Although, I'd change my mind if I were convinced that it would make a significant difference in the quality of my shaves or food preparation.

Really, I just want become skilled at straight razor shaves and acquiring/maintaining the equipment I need to do so. To make an analogy, I don't want to be the guy who owns a ton of guitars and amplifiers and can tell you everything about them, yet only knows a few basic scales and a handful of songs. Not that there's anything wrong with that. A vast collection and impressive knowledge is something to admire. But that's not what I hope to achieve. I want to be the guy who can fit all his equipment in the back of a van and stun an audience because he's worked hard to develop his skills and master his tools.

I suppose you could be both guys. But I only want to be the second.

*I'll be in Paris, Bordeaux, Lourdes, and Barcelona. Please let me know if there are any products or shops that I should take a look at.

If I was to go minimalist......:)

I would go with a paddle or loom strop with built in hone.

Here is one I like.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...t-project.html

When you buy a hone go with a combo. 3-8k or 4-8k. I wouldn't use it for my kitchen knife as they are to fine in my opinion.

With razors, 8k is a perfectly acceptable & common place to stop in the honing process, followed by finishing on a treated strop. Higher grit stones are "finishers", meant to improve upon the already polished edge... getting it to have a mirror finish with ever increasing magnification. The effects of which vary depending on the specific blade, the hone used, and the operator using the tools.

I can't really imagine using anything higher than a 1k on kitchen cutlery. AFAIK, many chefs don't even hit the 1k mark. With the exception of specialty knives intended only for certain uses (ex: IIRC, sushi masters like their knives to have an edge that would rival that of legendary Samurai swords :tameshigiri:).

If you are going to be traveling in Europe, you could try to reach out to some of our many members over across the pond. I can't remember exactly where he is located, but there is a custom maker (though not an SRP member) of razors & fine cutlery named Mistro Livi (I think), somewhere over there. From what I've seen on here, you would NOT regret paying a visit to his shop, given the chance!

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Originally Posted by Crawler

With razors, 8k is a perfectly acceptable & common place to stop in the honing process, followed by finishing on a treated strop

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:hmmm: I guess that all those great shaves I got off of the 8K weren't so great!:banghead: I never used a 'treated strop' I still don't. I have them but only use them on rare occasions. But the pasted strop only gets about 5-7 laps and the strop is only 14" long.

However all freshly honed razors do get a about 100 laps on cloth followed by few hundred laps on leather and that's whether or not the freshly honed blade has touched a treated strop or not.

To Each Their Own. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

:hmmm: I guess that all those great shaves I got off of the 8K weren't so great!:banghead: I never used a 'treated strop' I still don't. I have them but only use them on rare occasions. But the pasted strop only gets about 5-7 laps and the strop is only 14" long.

However all freshly honed razors do get a about 100 laps on cloth followed by few hundred laps on leather and that's whether or not the freshly honed blade has touched a treated strop or not.

To Each Their Own. :shrug:

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Yes, there are a million ways to skin this particular cat. I have a tendency to be long winded on here, and didn't want to overwhelm him with a micro-novel.

Personally, mostly due to a lack of resources, I refresh my edge on the only razor hone I have: a Shapton M5 12k ceramic. Then I use many, uncounted laps on my 3" Black Latigo strop (first webbing, then leather) from SRD to meditate. It's not a Lynn Abrams edge, but it works. I've also completely honed a few razors this way.

Though there are wrong ways to hone a SR, the "right way" is a much more wide, grey area. The OP can streamline his self education in this matter by spending a weekend in the SRP library.

All I had for the first year or so was a Norton 4k/8k and a CrOx paddle strop and I got a VERY nice edges and shaves.

Unfortunately, I won't have time to go to Italy. But I'd love to see Mistro Livi's workshop. I remember watching an incredible video on YouTube where he makes a razor from start to finish.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the advice everyone has been giving me. But just one more question: is using a 12k, and nothing else, a common way of maintaining an edge on an already sharp razor?

I forgot to mention, the most common finishing stone I've seen cited on Japanese knife fora to sharpen is 4K/6K.

I'd assume the properties of Japanese steel, especially something like tamahagane, are what make that possible.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I was vilified on Reddit for my ignorance by making the claim that an 8k can produce a satisfactory shave.

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You should be vilified. Any reason will do. Love ya brother!!! Lol

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Originally Posted by vileru

But just one more question: is using a 12k, and nothing else, a common way of maintaining an edge on an already sharp razor?

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Any hone 8k or above could be used as a touch up regularly to keep a razor sharp. The trick is not to let the edge degrade further than your stone can bring back.

For a minimalist approach, I would go for a coticule. That's what I used on your razor.

Enjoy!