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I've been reading here for a little while, and know a few members from other places, so thought I'd say hello properly.
I'll probably largely be talking about stones, of which I have far too many. Though I mostly sharpen knives (as part of work), I have started using / honing / restoring SRs in the last few months.
Cheers,
Oli
Hi Oli and welcome. Nice to have you with us although I have to question "too many." Do they fit under your roof? If so then I wouldn't call it too many.:rofl2: Enabling is rampant 'round these parts.
Sounds like you'll fit right in here. I look forward to seeing you around the forum.
Your title mentioned Aus and UK but your location says SA. Is that southern Australia or South Africa?
Welcome to the forum
Bob
Hello Oli, welcome in from lurking out in the cold.
I don't know hardly anything about sharpening knves although i have put a nice edge on my little Victorinox EDC.
I keep a good edge on my razors, good enough for me anyway but I know for sure that there's a lot of guys here that can put a scary sharp edge on one.
Thanks for the welcome guys, I look forward to learning more from people here! I'm still pretty new to razor honing; I didn't find the transition from knife sharpening as difficult as some people say it can be, though I'm certainly still improving all the time. (And I did have the added bonus of my first razor being honed for me by an expert, so I had a benchmark to aim for when doing restorations :))
Ah good point, I'll see if I can change that to make it less confusing... I live in South Australia just outside Adelaide, but am from London originally.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulFLUS
At a guess I have around 100 stones, which is 'too many' according to my wife, though I imagine I'm in good company here!
I actually used to work in the UK wine/restaurant industry, and Victorinox knives were probably the brand I saw most in pro kitchens - they're literally everywhere. Very good knives for not an extortionate amount of money :).Quote:
Originally Posted by STF
Hello Oli and welcome to SRP.
Enjoy the forum.
Pete <:-}
Welcome Oli.
We are a great bunch of enablers and would love to see images of some of your sharpening stones, especially if any of them are rare or exotic.
Welcome to the forum. There are a lot of hone lovers around here that’s for sure. I’d like to see what restorations you’ve been up to.
I've only done three, so be kind, but here goes...
These were all fairly old and rusty, so needed a fair bit of blade work. But the thing I really wanted to do was to see what a traditional western ground SR would be like with a fixed handle. I'm not a big fan of the normal hinged, scaled style, particularly for honing. I don't mind it in use, but I wanted to see if I could make something that was (for me) just as easy to shave with, and better to hone.
First one was a John Heiffor and a bit of an experiment. Stadium oval shape handle from Olive wood, a little bit of Red Mallee Burl, and the black at the end is some of the original horn scales:
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Second is a Wilheim Weber and has basically a traditional octagonal Japanese knife handle made from curly Maple with Grey dye in the stabilization, Bocote, and used winemaking oak stave at the end:
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Last one is a Bengall, and I pretty much nailed it I think; again an octagonal handle, but I tried to get some angle into the fit to mimic how you might hold a normal razor handle open. That wasn't easy, and this is about as much angle as you can get into one without either making the handle too big, or grinding down the 'tang', which I didn't want to do. It also has more 'neck' on it, which works better. Made from Red Malle Burl, Syrah/Shiraz vine wood, and buffalo horn:
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I can certainly do niche stones - I have quite a few kooky things, and just started a thread on the sub forum with some recent acquisitions that I'm not entirely sure of. But here's a few favourites that probably count as rare-ish...
Some old Turkish Oilstones which I use a lot, as they're staggeringly good knife stones (also have an unpictured Cretan stone that Vasilis sent sent me):
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Have since got another one, which I think is probably an old Pike Turkey Stone, and is very fine and uniform for an old Turkish:
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Recently found very cheaply a stone I'd been wanting for a while. Old green label black ark:
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Particularly nice as it was a 5x2 and so the same size as one of my absolute pride and joys - a completely untouched NOS Lily White, also found bizarrely cheaply in Aus:
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That's about the only stone which I don't use at all, I tried one side of it once just cos you have to, but I have a few other Washitas I do use, including a nice old Pike LW, and a recent Norton No.1:
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[It’s not all novaculites I have, promise, just those happen to be some favourites!]
Some nice rocks for sure. The handles look nice on the razors but I think id prefer original shaped scales. To each there own, as they say.
You clearly have some skills and a lot of experience.
Thanks for sharing.
I’m curious about how you store your fixed handled straights.
Haha! Yeah storage and travel is certainly the downside for doing fixed handles. Atm I just store them on their sides on a shelf. The balance point for each is pretty much exactly at the start of the handle, but they'll lie flat, either on their side or face up. Next project will definitely though be some kind of storage for them, probably something simple - a box with dividers, along the lines of a cutlery drawer. A travel case might be a bit more tricky though, what do people use for kamisori...?
As Gasman said above - the style probably wouldn't be for everybody, but I was slightly surprised after the first one and how easy I found it to use. Not necessarily better or worse for actually shaving (at least for me), but I knew I was going to prefer honing with a fixed handle. It possibly also helped that I was very new to using SRs, so hadn't built up much muscle memory in my hands. I imagine someone who's been using normal handled SRs for years might find a fixed one a bit weird and alien.
At some point I'll do one with scales too though. Nice to have a bit of variety!
Welcome aboard, Oli.
Nice work in the handles.!
As for hones, ya got some good ones. I too, am partial to my Washitas. I have the white, and a butterscotch.
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I find them to be the most versatile hone I've ever had in my hand.
A lot of us here have a multitude of different types of hones, from synthetic to naturals.
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How about strops.... Gotta have a selection, their all different, just like hones.
A little harder to hide from the wife, though. :rofl2:
Here FWIW is 'my end of the kitchen', that's probably about half of the total I guess, maybe a bit under...
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A lot of my 'work' sharpening is done on a handful of synthetics permasoaking in the bucket on the left, though in terms of numbers the very large majority are natural. Mixed bag of; Cotis, Arks, Wahsitas, 'Turkish' / Cretan, Charnleys, Idwal, Melynllyn, TOS, Dalmore, Hindostan, jnats (I use these mostly for bevel polishing on knives), Thuris, various other slates, French stone or two, some Israeli stones, Rozsutec, and probably various others that escape me.
Mostly just for fun and collecting, though now I've started using SRs many of them get more use; a lot of natural stones are too fine and slow to be much good for most kitchen knives. The only ones I use frequently, and would go out of my way to get multiple of, are Washitas, Turkish, and maybe cotis.
Ah very nice! I've got one old Washita that remains defiantly caramel/butterscotch no matter how much I degrease it, also very hard and highly translucent for a Washita, though I don't know if that's related. They're certainly excellent and very versatile stones, with incredible range. I actually used one on a SR for the first time yesterday after I dropped it on the bathroom floor and put a few dings along the edge :aargh: The Washita sorted it nicely before moving onto a Thuri :).Quote:
Originally Posted by outback
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I have a couple of old BHs too that came in job lots; a Swaty Two Line and a Pike Handihone, though I've not really used them yet. I understand the surfaces might need reconditioning (?), the Pike in particular seems a little dry, so any thoughts or advice for that would be gratefully received...
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Only have two strops atm; a very nice one kindly made and given to me by someone on B&B, and a smaller one that's dual sided leather and linen. Though knowing me I'll probably fall down that rabbit hole soon enough and end up with 30 of the things!
When I first used one on a SR I found it quite interesting how much of an improvement it made... For knives I (and many people I know who are far better sharpeners than me) simply use cardboard or paper, and I was kinda expecting that would work for razors too. But while I can strop a razor on cardboard, leather is infinitely better I find, and conversely - knives don't strop so well on leather - I still use card or paper for them. Something to do with the way different media refine edges in different ways I imagine, but I certainly found it interesting the varying effect!
Yeah, I started with knives when I was at a young age of 6 or 7 years old, using and learning the various rock's from out of the garden. My father gave me a combo hone, that came from my my grandfather. ( Unknown make, 220/1k grt. est. ). I've used it to hone all sorts of edged things, as well as my first SR. For me, I don't like synthetics for knives, I find most that I've used, too soft.
But the Washitas.... and high carbon kitchen knives....you bet.! Actually, a spooky edge, for a kitchen knife. But I don't have time for anything dull, in my life. :chapeau
And actually on the subject of butterscotch Washitas - here’s a grubby old ebay stone I got a couple of days ago that after a couple of days soak turned out to be a funky two-tone Washita, which I was quite pleased about. Very quick indeed, the darker bits are translucent ark levels of see-through, with the lighter bits more normal Washita like...
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Welcome to SRP! :)
I really like, and approve of, your collection of hones. I also find them to be very interesting in their different characteristics.
Someday, after I finish moving, I will take and post a pic of my collection.
Btw, I really like what you have done with the razors. :)
The old Barber's hones, like the Swatty. Most of us have had success with coating them with petroleum jelly, and heating them up. Probably can find it in a search.
Funny you mention your butterscotch, being translucent. Mines the same way. The white, next to it for reference.
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Definitely, the cream of the crop for Washitas.
Mines very burnished, and I use it only for straights. I leave the white, for knives in such.
I initially set the bevel on a razor, with a 1k synthetic. Then move to the Washita and just plain water. That will refine to about 5 k. If I want to refine the edge further, I can add a few drops or pure glycerin, or maybe hand or dish soap. I don't like oil, unless I want it to be more aggressive, and become a cutter, than a polisher.
Their a really cool stone, once you figure them out.
Interesting... I always use mine with oil, because that aggressive cutting is great for knives (and indeed removing dings like I was doing yesterday!). But I'll certainly try using water and soap when using them for more delicate SR stuff in the future. My caramel coloured one is the Pike LW in my earlier pic; similar level of translucency to your one in comparison to the more normal white version, and like yours it's definitely at the hard and fine end of the scale, and burnishes more than others. SG is around 2.45 from memory, perhaps I'll follow your lead and reserve that one for razors going forward, and keep the coarser, faster ones for knives.Quote:
Originally Posted by outback
Certainly one of the most remarkable stones ever quarried, the only thing that I've found that will really compare are 'Turkish' stones, which I'd strongly recommend if you don't have one. I think it's now generally accepted that old Turkish stones and modern Cretan stones are one and the same, and in my experience I would categorically say that is the case. I absolutely love my old Turkish, but there's no denying they're the same rock as my Cretan stone (which is also excellent), so you don't have to spend silly money to get an old one :).
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Thank you for the tip re - BHs, 'll have a search and read up about the procedure.
Ah cheers! I was quite pleased with how they came out, especially the last one, and frankly rather surprised that I could get a nice usable edge on razors I'd sanded down and then honed from scratch. Though I do a lot of knife sharpening on a daily basis so kinda understood already how geometry works, and differences between abrading and edge refinement.Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
Having said that... the very best edge I can get on any of my razors is still on the one that was initially honed by someone else, and I've since just touched up on finishing stones a few times. So definitely still lots to learn and room for improvement.
Look forward to seeing your collection after the move!
Oli, you have certainly passed the hone acquisition disorder and razor restoration/modification parts of the SRP entrance exam :tu
You have more hones than most of us. We have a few folks who are really quite expert about sharpening stones and will likely chime in on the conversation.
I don’t have a lot of hones, but have found that I rely on my combination coticules and finish on my Pierre la Lune or an Oozuku, both with glycerine and water. I also use chromium oxide on a balsa paddle strop to refresh an edge.
Hi and welcome aboard. Great collection of stones.
Haha... yeah the HAD's bad eh! Still it give me lots of fun things to play around with, while learning more about razor honing / restoring :).Quote:
Originally Posted by DZEC
For instance I haven't yet managed to master all the slurry techniques people talk about for using coticules with SRs. Coticules give gorgeous (imo) edges on kitchen knives at the quite fine end of the scale, but even very fine examples seem to be quite aggressive for razor finishers, so I think need to read up more about the techniques and tricks people use.
I've only used an Ozuku a few times, but it wasn't mine and was before I started with SRs. Something that hard and fine is basically completely pointless for a knife, but I can imagine make for superb razor stones. I only have one Jnat that would be a razor finisher, which I actually came about by chance when playing one of my favourite games: Cheap-Ebay-Mystery-Stone-Roulette. And rather amazingly a $25 Aus stone from someone in Sydney who'd been an apprentice carpenter in the '50s, turned out to be an absolutely beautiful Mizu Asagi, on the right of the pic below. No stamps any more obviously, but if it isn't a Nakayama it's certainly doing a good impression of one:
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Stone on the left is interesting too... I've made dozens of whetstones out of local slates, most of which I've given away to people, that one though I kept. It's not just good-for-something-you've-found-on-the-ground good, it's a really properly good stone.
I forgot to mention that I also have a Vermio, which now seems to be one of those hard to find stones, but wasn’t very expensive at the time. It is a good finisher - hard and slow, so it requires some patience and seems perfect for razors. I use it with water and glycerine and no slurry. The vendor claims it is the equivalent of 12K - 15K, but that kind of claim is always up for debate.
When I reset a bevel or have to work on damaged edges, I use a DMT coarse or Extra Fine, a Shapton Kuromaku 1K, and my trusty Norton 4k/8k.
I have been impressed with the recent re-release of the Pierre la Lune stones. The one I have seems to be a great finisher for my razors. As with the Vermio, I work with water and glycerine and no slurry.
Since I’ve been using the combination coticules for several years now, I seem to have them dialled in. The BBW side works really well for my knives as well. I use the coti side and start with a milky water & glycerine slurry and work my way through a series of dilutions to just clear. The edges are very comfortable at the end of the progression, but I do a final polish using one of my finishers just because.
The cotis take a while and each one is just a bit different. I really like the edges I get with mine and have so far resisted HAD to get other hones.
Funnily enough I have a Vermio hone on its way to me soon (courtesy of a member here), looking forward to trying!
Noted re - glycerine and water. It wasn't something I'd heard of before starting to hone razors, but see recommended quite often, so will have to give it a try. I have a few cotis of various different kinda 'grit' levels; I don't know anything about what layers they are, there was just a period where I kept coming across them second hand for about $10 Aus a pop and I couldn't say 'no', so ended up with six or seven :eek:
The most peculiar of them is the one below; this certainly wouldn't be a razor stone, but I don't know if you or anyone else has come across anything similar? It's a decent sized (180x50), naturally bonded stone, with a very thick BBW layer. And both that and the coticule part are seriously coarse and fast - no higher than 3k - far coarser than other of my others.
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I think it is unusual to find a coarse coti in the 3k range. I wonder if it just needs to be lapped.
I am very jealous that you were able to pick up so many cotis at such a low price. They cost many times that this side of the pond. The two I favour are natural combination stones, one of which came from Ardenes via a vendor in the US and the other I inherited from my dad who had no earthly reason to own one. I have no idea what veins they come from, but they do the job.
The one stone I have the most difficulty with is what was sold to me as a small green thuri. Just can’t seem to get the thuri edge everyone talks about.
Yeah it's a really weird one that coti, it certainly did need lapping when I got it, but it's just really coarse - quite a lot coarser than any of my others. Absolutely great knife stone, and perhaps could set bevels on a razor, but it'd never get anywhere near finishing one I don't think. Atypical but very interesting stone!
Slow response I know but you have more hones than I do for sure, at least if all you are counting is razor hones since I do not use them for both. I have a butt load of "knife stones," many of which I got in eBay lots I bought for one specific stone but the majority came from my dad who had a sharpening business. I have one big 2 sided carborundum/crystolon that was his I basically ignored until recently. It was filthy but I finally cleaned it up with some mineral spirits and a wire brush before a soak which brought it back to near new looking condition. I think it is an old Norton but the stamp is long gone.
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It has turned out to be a real workhorse and much better than I realized for kitchen knives.
Here is another interesting one of his which he told us not to use for knives or other tools when we were kids, he said, "because this is made for sharpening razors."
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It is a massive toe breaker, 10 ¾ x 3 ¾ x 3 ¼ and is 2 sided. One has a mineral of some kind you can see in the second pic and is much harder. I haven't really deciphered that one yet. I have a tendency to get distracted by new garden rocks which make me say, "hmmm... Bet I could hone a razor on that," of which I have many.
Thanks for sharing that collection though. Man, now my HAD is flaring up again.
I’m the same - loads of old vitrified SiC and AlOx stones in job lots with one or two more ‘interesting’ stones. But as you say; they’re certainly not to be underestimated for knives. I use SiC and India combis *alot* for repair work and restorations, pretty much any stone Pike/Norton has ever put out is brilliantly designed for its purpose: https://www.instagram.com/p/COTEm4cL...dium=copy_link
Your second one there looks cool, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything like that!
I’m also a bit the same with making stones from local rocks; have made dozens, mostly slates, and some of which are really rather good :).
I got given a chunk of something a couple of days ago that I’ve been wanting for a while - which I flattened up and made a little slurry stone for... the Moughton Whetstone:
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I have to get that big block figured out but I have a set of stones I got from another member I need to spend more time with first. Work has kind of gotten in the way lately.
