Cutting my teeth on a Cut-Throat

Greetings, I've lurked on most of the shaving sites I could find for months now and I've finally decided to take the plunge. At my stage in life, I am fortunate enough to have more money than sense, so I jumped in the deep-end and picked up everything I think I will need. If anyone is interested in critiquing the setup I would appreciate knowing where I went wrong or what dangers I should look out for with what I picked up. With that, here is the setup:

Razor: Professionally-Honed DOVO All Stainless Steel, 5/8
Brush: Rooney Shaving Brush, Style 3, Medium, "Super Silvertip"
Strop: American Made 3" Extra Wide Mountain Strop
Shaving Cream: Castle Forbes Essential Oil Shaving Cream
Oops Stick: Pinaud/Clubman "Nick Relief"

Now, if you will indulge me, I have a couple of questions that I could not resolve in my research.

1) Is the "Professionally-Honed DOVO All Stainless Steel, 5/8" shave ready? They had "factory honed" and "professionally honed", but I'm still not sure that means shave-ready.

2) On the recommendation of the wiki here, I did not buy a hone at all. Am I naive enough to believe that you can, for the life of the razor, merely keep it sharp using the fabric and leather sides of the strop? This was one aspect of the whole straight razor business I found a hard time finding an answer to.

Other than that, I'm looking forward to liberal use of the styptic pen as I wander down the road of straight razors as I will use it for both my head and face.

Regards,

Bodach, cut-throat in training

Others more knowledgable than me will chime in but I will attempt to answer. First welcome to SRP you will find everyone here to be super helpful. Okay questions yes, I don't have experiance with classicshaving myself but I hear good things if they say it's professionally honed I believe you can trust them. 2nd on is harder but I'll try. No, you will not be able to keep the razor perfectly shave ready forever with only a strop, yet buying an expensive natural or synthetic stone is not your only choice. If you are just looking to maintain an edge that is already shave ready a barber hone or a second strop dusted with CrOx or diamond paste. You can also use the CrOx or Diamond paste on a block of balsa wood to do touch ups. That said you should be able to get at least a couple months with only the strop as long as you are careful and do not roll the edge with poor stropping. As I said in the beginning I am new, and everything I said was how I interpreted what others have said so I could be wrong and others will correct me if I am.

Welcome to SRP
1.Factory honed means it will have an edge but not necessarily shave ready. No one at the factory will shave test the razor to check.
Professionally honed means the edge should be shave ready.
2. The linen & leather should be all you need for a while but a honing is inevitable at some point. It s simply better to leave that learning curve for later. Concentrate on the shave & correct stropping for now.

If your razor is initially shave ready, you only need to keep it that way.

For this purpose (the traditional barber's situation), you can get by with a strop and an inexpensive ($10-$15 on ebay) small barber's hone.

The first problem you're going to have is that you will dull the razor by improper stropping.

Shave at least once with the razor without doing anything to the blade first so that you know what a sharp razor feels like.

I'm also fairly knew at this, but I'll pass on a critical piece of advice: When stropping or honing the most important thing is to use no force at all downwards. You should glide the razor across the strop (spine leading) or stone (edge leading). The object of the strop is to straighten a delicate edge. Any force will dull it instead. Similarly for honing. This will take some practice in the beginning, as you have a natural inclination to push down.

The same concept applies to shaving. Don't push down. Glide the blade. Don't force if it snags: That's when you'll get cut. Under the nose, at the corners of the mouth, under the lip on over the chin are the hard parts. Learn how to shave your cheeks and throat first and get confidence before attempting the hard parts. Shave with the grain first and learn that. Then across the grain in places. Leave against the grain until you've mastered everything else.

Cold water works almost as well as a styptic pencil. Try finishing with a cold water rinse each time.

A good lather as lubricant is essential ("dry shaving" used to be an alternative to "riding out of town on a rail" and "tarring and feathering"). A bad lather is easy to spot: The foam will fade within seconds to let your face show through. A small amount of castor oil (found in pharmacies) or even corn oil will improve lubrication.

Keep your hands dry and clean so that you don't fumble the razor. If you drop it, it'll probably break (and you'll be out the cost) or hit you (and the co-pay will be as bad as breaking the razor).

Have a dry washcloth to set the razor down on when you need to or before and after shaving. Make sure there are no water droplets inside the case, on the case or on the blade after shaving. Let dry partially open in a safe place for 5-10 minutes at least.

Good advice tho you can safely put the razor down on a flat hard surface if it is closed to 45º or so. The scales will prevent the edge contacting.

That is really nice strop. You'll have to start really slow if you don't want to nick it up. Most suggest something simple like a Filly strop from ruprazor.com to start so as to nick that instead of your fine strop.

slow is smooth and smooth is fast. I started really slow and only made one big nick on my practice strop, and none on my nice strop that I'm using now (knock on wood).

Sounds like a great kit, you'll love straight shaving once you get over the learning curve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehekler

Others more knowledgable than me will chime in but I will attempt to answer. First welcome to SRP you will find everyone here to be super helpful. Okay questions yes, I don't have experiance with classicshaving myself but I hear good things if they say it's professionally honed I believe you can trust them. 2nd on is harder but I'll try. No, you will not be able to keep the razor perfectly shave ready forever with only a strop, yet buying an expensive natural or synthetic stone is not your only choice. If you are just looking to maintain an edge that is already shave ready a barber hone or a second strop dusted with CrOx or diamond paste. You can also use the CrOx or Diamond paste on a block of balsa wood to do touch ups. That said you should be able to get at least a couple months with only the strop as long as you are careful and do not roll the edge with poor stropping. As I said in the beginning I am new, and everything I said was how I interpreted what others have said so I could be wrong and others will correct me if I am.

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thehekler,

So at some point, no matter how well I do at stropping against both a cloth and leather strop, I will dull the blade enough that there is no recourse but to 'hone' the blade? Is this an accurate statement?

Regards,

Bodach - Cut-Throat in Training

Just remember that the leather strop is not a tool to sharpen your razor,so light pressure,just the weight of the blade, when stropping.Think of stropping as a method that just smooths out that fine sharp edge.When i started stropping i used to much pressure (because i thought i would get a sharper edge) and ended up rolling the edge!!!!Plus I would get another shave ready razor as a back-up, when you send one out for honing.Hope this helps and WELCOME ABOARD!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Welcome to SRP
1.Factory honed means it will have an edge but not necessarily shave ready. No one at the factory will shave test the razor to check.
Professionally honed means the edge should be shave ready.
2. The linen & leather should be all you need for a while but a honing is inevitable at some point. It s simply better to leave that learning curve for later. Concentrate on the shave & correct stropping for now.

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If I understand what I've ready thus far from day to day I can strop on the leather prior to shaving until it 'starts' to feel a little different or starts to pull, then I should do 25-50 strokes on the linen then the same on the leather and I should be back to 'good to go'...at least for a few months? I am so grateful that you guys are here.

Regards,

Bodach

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alethephant

If your razor is initially shave ready, you only need to keep it that way.

For this purpose (the traditional barber's situation), you can get by with a strop and an inexpensive ($10-$15 on ebay) small barber's hone.

The first problem you're going to have is that you will dull the razor by improper stropping.

Shave at least once with the razor without doing anything to the blade first so that you know what a sharp razor feels like.

I'm also fairly knew at this, but I'll pass on a critical piece of advice: When stropping or honing the most important thing is to use no force at all downwards. You should glide the razor across the strop (spine leading) or stone (edge leading). The object of the strop is to straighten a delicate edge. Any force will dull it instead. Similarly for honing. This will take some practice in the beginning, as you have a natural inclination to push down.

The same concept applies to shaving. Don't push down. Glide the blade. Don't force if it snags: That's when you'll get cut. Under the nose, at the corners of the mouth, under the lip on over the chin are the hard parts. Learn how to shave your cheeks and throat first and get confidence before attempting the hard parts. Shave with the grain first and learn that. Then across the grain in places. Leave against the grain until you've mastered everything else.

Cold water works almost as well as a styptic pencil. Try finishing with a cold water rinse each time.

A good lather as lubricant is essential ("dry shaving" used to be an alternative to "riding out of town on a rail" and "tarring and feathering"). A bad lather is easy to spot: The foam will fade within seconds to let your face show through. A small amount of castor oil (found in pharmacies) or even corn oil will improve lubrication.

Keep your hands dry and clean so that you don't fumble the razor. If you drop it, it'll probably break (and you'll be out the cost) or hit you (and the co-pay will be as bad as breaking the razor).

Have a dry washcloth to set the razor down on when you need to or before and after shaving. Make sure there are no water droplets inside the case, on the case or on the blade after shaving. Let dry partially open in a safe place for 5-10 minutes at least.

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Alethephant,

There is some fantastic advice there, especially about the amount of pressure you put on the strop. I have vociferously researched all I could about stropping and what you said seems to be dead on, thank you!.

Bodach

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeffegg2

That is really nice strop. You'll have to start really slow if you don't want to nick it up. Most suggest something simple like a Filly strop from ruprazor.com to start so as to nick that instead of your fine strop.

slow is smooth and smooth is fast. I started really slow and only made one big nick on my practice strop, and none on my nice strop that I'm using now (knock on wood).

Sounds like a great kit, you'll love straight shaving once you get over the learning curve.

---

I do not mean to seem callous, but if I ruin this strop I will just buy a replacement. What I mean is I would like to learn on the best gear I can afford. I am gratified that you like the strop and it gives me confidence that the stop will serve me well to keep the blade sharpened for a while. Thank you much.

Bodach

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nessmuck

Just remember that the leather strop is not a tool to sharpen your razor,so light pressure,just the weight of the blade, when stropping.Think of stropping as a method that just smooths out that fine sharp edge.When i started stropping i used to much pressure (because i thought i would get a sharper edge) and ended up rolling the edge!!!!Plus I would get another shave ready razor as a back-up, when you send one out for honing.Hope this helps and WELCOME ABOARD!!!!

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nessmuck,

From everything I've read I'm so scared to put any pressure at all on the strop, is there any danger in not putting 'enough' pressure? By that I mean if I merely drag the blade's weight along the strop is that enough or do I need to learn the 'finesse' of just enough but not too much pressure on the stop?

This is extremely fun, but wholly frustrating at the same time. I'm sure everyone that reads this understands it wholly.

Regards,

Bodach

Good advice which you read all the time here is "just the weight of the razor" but the strop with a high draw may give you a different interaction to a strop that is icy slick. Still you need to resist the temptation to push down as opposed to pushing laterally. That is the finesse aspect. There is an amount of pressure that is appropriate & the figure may be arbitrary as a big honking 9/8 wedge will be heavier than a 3/8 trimmer but essentially the weight of the razor will do.

Also bear in mind that ruining your strop will take a toll on your edge, yes you can buy another strop but you may also need to buy another honing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodach

If I understand what I've ready thus far from day to day I can strop on the leather prior to shaving until it 'starts' to feel a little different or starts to pull, then I should do 25-50 strokes on the linen then the same on the leather and I should be back to 'good to go'...at least for a few months? I am so grateful that you guys are here.

Regards,

Bodach

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There seem to be slightly different thoughts but I think the more common school of thought and what I use is to strop on fabric/linen followed by leather everytime you strop. If you were to think of it in terms of knives a strop (combined linen/leather) is like a steal. You use it everytime that you use the razor (knife in the example). But no matter how good you are stropping eventually your gonna need to touch the razor up, (again knife in the example). To do this some use a high grit finishing stone, a barber hone, or another strop (non-daily) coated with an abrasive, diamond powder and CrOx being the most common. A strop is only for aligning the finest edge of the razor but over time the edge will develop larger irregularities that a strop cannot fix this is when it will need honing. Like any sharp instrument it is always easiest to hone when it is just begining to tug/pull as the hone will have a smaller amount of work to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodach

I do not mean to seem callous, but if I ruin this strop I will just buy a replacement. What I mean is I would like to learn on the best gear I can afford. I am gratified that you like the strop and it gives me confidence that the stop will serve me well to keep the blade sharpened for a while. Thank you much.

Bodach

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No problem, it's your money. The Filly is a good quality strop to learn on, and makes a nice pasted strop when you move to your "best gear". It was sound advice when given to me, and I only passed it on to you.
:popcorn:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeffegg2

No problem, it's your money. The Filly is a good quality strop to learn on, and makes a nice pasted strop when you move to your "best gear". It was sound advice when given to me, and I only passed it on to you.
:popcorn:

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Sounds like good advice from you that I'm failing to understand. Keep drilling it into my simple mind and I'll get it eventually.

Thanks,

Bodach

Re-reading this thread I note that you got the stainless steel version of the Dovo.

The good news is that it won't break or chip easily, as the carbon steel ones do, and it will hold an edge longer.

The bad news is that it is harden to sharpen and re-sharpen.

If you edge is just rounded over, you can probably strop it back into straightness. That's what stropping is for. Try this first. Hold the strop taut and horizontal while you strop. Use X-pattern strokes and glide the razor across the strop.

What I have found is that stropping is actually an alternative to finish honing, if you use pasted strops. I got an extra canvas strop, and but black paste (coarse) on one side and white paste (fine) on the other. My regular strop has Russian leather and another canvas(?), on which I put green paste (very fine).

Stropping on the green paste actually lightly hones, as some gray metal is visible when I wipe the blade afterwards with a tissue. The white and black pastes do more serious honing. From what I can tell, using the black/white strops is about equivalent to using 6000/12000 grit waterstones, but less efficient. It's a lot less messy, though. An alternative to black/white/green pastes for strops is 2.5 um, 1.0 um and 0.5 um diamond pastes.

My basic go/no go test is a variant of the "hanging hair test". After final stropping, I hold a hair with about 1.5" sticking out and drag it along the blade. It should lop off at least once, or the blade is too dull to use. If it lops off after a short distance (several times along the blade), the blade is sharp. If it's not sharp, repeat your process. If it is, shave with it and see if you can shave without tugging and it removes hair. If it tugs, some part of the blade is still not sharp enough (watch for a slight warp in the blade which can prevent uniform honing). If it glides on your face but doesn't appear to shave hair, you probably have a rounded edge ("wire-edge").

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alethephant

What I have found is that stropping is actually an alternative to finish honing, if you use pasted strops. I got an extra canvas strop, and but black paste (coarse) on one side and white paste (fine) on the other. My regular strop has Russian leather and another canvas(?), on which I put green paste (very fine).

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This is very generic information. Can you be more specific about these different coloured pastes you advise ? Colour is no indication of grit size

I use the standard molded bars sold to use with grinding and buffing wheels. They are sold by color. Black = emery, White = calcite, Green = Cr2O3.

If you want grit sizes, I gave you the equivalent particular sizes for diamond pastes. Cr2O3 is generally considered about 0.3 um, so it's close to the 0.5 um diamond paste I mentioned.

Grit sizes are somewhat garbled in the trade.

American grit is based on passing through a mesh. The mean particle size is about 1/3 of the mesh size. So a 1000 American grit stone = mesh size of 0.001" ~ 8.5 um.

I don't know how the Japanese determine their grit sizes, but this scale is typically what people use when talking about honing. 1200 American grit ~ 5000 Japanese ~ 5 um. 12000 Japanese grit ~ 1-2 um.

Grit isn't the whole answer, because particles can stay sharp or break up or get smoother. So the same grit with different materials can grind differently. That's why jeweller's rouge (Fe2O3) is not used on steel: It breaks down quickly.

I use the bars because it's easy to rub them on the strop to get the abrasive in. Diamond pastes are oil based, so it's trickier to get even distribution. You can buy cream pastes in tubes from Dovo and other suppliers: They're color coded for grit size too.

What you really want is a couple stages of grit that starts where a finish stone would be (say 2-5 um) and ends up with a polish would be (0.3-0.5 um). The leather strop is then a very fine grit (0.1 um) and straightener. Some metal comes off even on the leather, as you will find it gets dirty over time with metal dust.

The advantage of pasted strops is that you don't need stones and other paraphenalia to do touch up work. You can keep all of the strops on the same hook.

Stones are necessary for setting bevels (medium to fine grit, 10-30 um) and other repair work. You get a lot faster action with honing (edge leading) than with stropping (edge trailing).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alethephant

I use the standard molded bars sold to use with grinding and buffing wheels. They are sold by color. Black = emery, White = calcite, Green = Cr2O3.

You can buy cream pastes in tubes from Dovo and other suppliers: They're color coded for grit size too.

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My point exactly. The Dovo color system is completely different to the molded bars you use ie the Dovo green is coarser than the black.

Witch Hazel is good addition. I like the stuff and it is a good astringent to use after a shave.

You will like the septic pencil, I use it on all types of small cuts and it works well, burns a little but works well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodach

Greetings, I've lurked on most of the shaving sites I could find for months now and I've finally decided to take the plunge. At my stage in life, I am fortunate enough to have more money than sense, so I jumped in the deep-end and picked up everything I think I will need. If anyone is interested in critiquing the setup I would appreciate knowing where I went wrong or what dangers I should look out for with what I picked up. With that, here is the setup:

Razor: Professionally-Honed DOVO All Stainless Steel, 5/8
Brush: Rooney Shaving Brush, Style 3, Medium, "Super Silvertip"
Strop: American Made 3" Extra Wide Mountain Strop
Shaving Cream: Castle Forbes Essential Oil Shaving Cream
Oops Stick: Pinaud/Clubman "Nick Relief"

Now, if you will indulge me, I have a couple of questions that I could not resolve in my research.

1) Is the "Professionally-Honed DOVO All Stainless Steel, 5/8" shave ready? They had "factory honed" and "professionally honed", but I'm still not sure that means shave-ready.

2) On the recommendation of the wiki here, I did not buy a hone at all. Am I naive enough to believe that you can, for the life of the razor, merely keep it sharp using the fabric and leather sides of the strop? This was one aspect of the whole straight razor business I found a hard time finding an answer to.

Other than that, I'm looking forward to liberal use of the styptic pen as I wander down the road of straight razors as I will use it for both my head and face.

Regards,

Bodach, cut-throat in training

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I've continued to research this topic and I found a website in the UK, Dovo Razors UK, that has an 11-page informational PDF for new users on general knowledge for the new buyer. The bookmarks include:

1) Buying Your First Straight Razor: Some Points To Keep In Mind
2) Using your straight razor.
3) Preparing for your first shave.
4) Stropping the razor.
5) Honing the razor.

This link will take you there and you can download it for some information that may or may not be common knowledge to you guys. I love this forum, thanks guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeffegg2

No problem, it's your money. The Filly is a good quality strop to learn on, and makes a nice pasted strop when you move to your "best gear". It was sound advice when given to me, and I only passed it on to you.
:popcorn:

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Jeffegg2,

I just found an article on a "paddle strop". All I seem to read about stropping is to keep it tight and straight and use no pressure. Well, wouldn't buying a "paddle strop" eliminate keeping the strop tight? What don't I know about a paddle strop? It seems the best of both worlds.

Bodach

Yeah, I realize I'm replying to my own post, but can you shave every single day with a straight razor? I've gone back and forth from a single blade disposable up through the 5-blade Gillete Fusion ProGlide. Currently, I can only shave every other day or two no matter what blade I use. Is the straight razor, with appropriately conditioned skin (never had a brush or anything but can foam), shave me ever day and not ruin my skin?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodach

...can you shave every single day with a straight razor?

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I normally shave Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Mostly because I am lazy... But since I have ditched my disposable and caned foam I am desiring a daily shave.

Not sure if my skin can hold up to it yet.

The second shave was a strange mixture of delight and frustration. I prepped my face as I did before in this thread, but I now have another razor. My first shave was with the full stainless steel Dovo 5/8 full hollow ground that was 'shave ready'. I also ordered a Dovo Bergischer Lowe 5/8 from Lynn. As I understand it, the SS is well, a stainless steel blade, but the Bergischer Lowe is a carbon steel blade. I thought it might behoove to try both to experience the difference.

My second shave was two days after my initial shave so I really do not think my 'technique' took a fabulous leap forward; however shaving with Lynn's blade made an enormous difference.

I started with my dominant hand cheek, used pure WTG short strokes with the Bergischer Lowe and it was very comfortable and did not tug and pull and hurt like the stainless steel blade did. I noted my angle and pulled out the SS blade and continued from where I was and low and behold it tugged and pulled--yes I had my skin taught this time. Is this tug and pull a by-product of the stainless steel blade or might I have received a less than shave-ready blade in the Dovo SS? As this is only the second time I've ever put a blade to my face I don't have the knowledge or experience to know the difference, and that's where I'm relying on you guys.

The Bergischer Lowe blade from Lynn was scratched to hell and looks terrible, but it shaves well. What do I mean by 'scratched to hell'? The curve of the blade is lined with vertical scratches from the spine to the edge all along the curve of the blade. Maybe this is part of honing and sharpening to get 'shave ready' or maybe it isn't, I just do not know. I am not blaming anyone, I simply do not know enough about this yet to know if this is common and normal or if it came that way from the factory or if something else happened. I really do not like the way the blade looks all scratched up, but again I am relying on you guys to let me know if this is normal.

Since the second shaves first pass on my dominate hand went so well with the Bergischer Lowe I lubed up my off-hand side and went for it. I actually used my off-hand and it was shaky but it worked fairly well. I did the side burn section as well as just a bit of the main cheek. Again, the Bergischer Lowe was really pretty smooth and the SS Dovo tugged and was more uncomfortable. Naturally, as this is my off-hand I nicked myself a couple of times, one which is still bleeding after 20 minutes, but it's a small price to pay for me.

After my second shave, my follow-on questions are:

1) Are SS and carbon steel blades inherently different in how they shave and the angle needed etc. or did I get a bum SS? They are both 5/8 full hollow ground from Dovo.
2) Is a professionally honed blade supposed to come with scratches all over the blade from spine to edge?

Do not misunderstand this post, I love the idea of using a straight razor, I am going to continue at it, but I do have some questions. By the way, for any new guys reading this thread, the Castle Forbes lavender cream is incredible!

Regards,

Bodach

Many like the paddle strop, and I see how it would be much flatter. I like the hanging strops because they look so "classic" and the coolness factor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodach

Jeffegg2,

I just found an article on a "paddle strop". All I seem to read about stropping is to keep it tight and straight and use no pressure. Well, wouldn't buying a "paddle strop" eliminate keeping the strop tight? What don't I know about a paddle strop? It seems the best of both worlds.

Bodach

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I think you probably are feeling the difference in honing method. You are really kinda knew to be a judge of "sharpness". If I were you, I would continue to use the blade that "feels right" until you are much more solid in your technique. Then sometime you can return to the other blade to better judge it's feel and sharpness.

I received a razor honed by Lynn, and it felt just a tad harsh. I gave it a few strokes on a CrOx'd strop and it has been my favorite ever since!!

.:beer2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodach

After my second shave, my follow-on questions are:

1) Are SS and carbon steel blades inherently different in how they shave and the angle needed etc. or did I get a bum SS? They are both 5/8 full hollow ground from Dovo.
2) Is a professionally honed blade supposed to come with scratches all over the blade from spine to edge?

Do not misunderstand this post, I love the idea of using a straight razor, I am going to continue at it, but I do have some questions. By the way, for any new guys reading this thread, the Castle Forbes lavender cream is incredible!

Regards,

Bodach

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bodach

1) Are SS and carbon steel blades inherently different in how they shave and the angle needed etc. or did I get a bum SS? They are both 5/8 full hollow ground from Dovo.
2) Is a professionally honed blade supposed to come with scratches all over the blade from spine to edge?

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1) SS blades or Carbon blades both shave great when optimally honed.
2) No a honed razor should not be all scratched up but you seem to be unsure if it came that way from the factory..