cant get my razor-razor sharp!

hi everyone,
Just joined because i cant seem to get my razor to a sharpness that will do the hanging hair test or cut the stubble off my chin.
let me explain,i am well into middle age and have been given a razor by a relative(a colombi number30 ),the razor was sharp,but after shaving it wasnt sharp enough to give me a close shave,so i used a multi blade to finish my shave.
Decided to get it professional sharpned-whichi did,but after a couple of shaves it was back to its former self.
I made a paddle strop,and a leather strop,used dovo green paste on one side of the paddle strop and a white pastewitha10,000grit rating to use as a touchup.Also purchased a aloxite number 200 razor hone.
using lather and water on the hone must have done 300 passes-didnt inprove the edge at all,dontno what i am doing wrong ?
Have not used the green dovo paste as i believe it is to aggressive.
So 10/12 passes on the 10,000 grit pasted strop,followed by at least 300 on the aloxite still hasnt given me a true razor sharp edge ,
My thoughts were that the aloxite razor hone and the pasted strop would have been a good enought combination to keep my razor keen.
I would be gratful for any thoughts or advice that could inprove my chances of getting that shave,without having to outlay a fortune.
regards clock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clock

hi everyone,
Just joined because i cant seem to get my razor to a sharpness that will do the hanging hair test or cut the stubble off my chin.
let me explain,i am well into middle age and have been given a razor by a relative(a colombi number30 ),the razor was sharp,but after shaving it wasnt sharp enough to give me a close shave,so i used a multi blade to finish my shave.
Decided to get it professional sharpned-whichi did,but after a couple of shaves it was back to its former self.
I made a paddle strop,and a leather strop,used dovo green paste on one side of the paddle strop and a white pastewitha10,000grit rating to use as a touchup.Also purchased a aloxite number 200 razor hone.
using lather and water on the hone must have done 300 passes-didnt inprove the edge at all,dontno what i am doing wrong ?
Have not used the green dovo paste as i believe it is to aggressive.
So 10/12 passes on the 10,000 grit pasted strop,followed by at least 300 on the aloxite still hasnt given me a true razor sharp edge ,
My thoughts were that the aloxite razor hone and the pasted strop would have been a good enought combination to keep my razor keen.
I would be gratful for any thoughts or advice that could inprove my chances of getting that shave,without having to outlay a fortune.
regards clock.

---

white paste is not sharpening compound -if you are talking about dovo white paste.
aloxite hone 300 stokes too much.
usually barber hones will not take more then 20 strokes on shave ready edge.
in fact you should go 4 strokes strop and check the edge not enough do 4 more strokes ,strop check the edge so on
but not 300.=this is honing.
i would say go head check the edge if you have any loop,mic etc.
if you don't have anything then go head
use white paste and make 50 strokes then move on to linen do 50 then leather strop 50 and check the edge . how it will shave.hanging hair test is not the best test in your situation.
if edge comes back then you should be ok if not
i am afraid you will need to send it out or get hones to do job yourself.
Norton 4/8k will do most like the job.
hope this helps.

The dumb question I have is "What kind of razor is this we are discussing" :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

"What kind of razor is this we are discussing"

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In the text it says Colombi No. 30. Maybe made by Curten and Holtgen , Solingen?

would you please post picture of the blade ?thank you

It is sort of like stepping up to a pool table for the first time,with a cue off the rack, and wondering why I can't bank the 8 ball on 3 rails and sink it in the side pocket on my first try. Honing ain't rocket science but, like shooting pool, it is an acquired skill. In some hands it is an art.

That is why there are pages and pages of discussion , videos and tutorials on the topic on SRP. So I know you are discouraged but I can assure you that if you have a razor with quality steel and the right tools for the job you'll be able to realize a shave ready blade with the help of SRP members and the resources provided. :gl:

Thanks -like most things i suppose things appear to be easier than what they are,but as i thought the razor was sharpned professionally,i presumed that with strop paste,strop,and the odd touch up on the aloxite,that would be enoughh to get a clean shave-it will shave but not close.I presumed that extra passes on the hone would polish the edge to the ultimate edge.
seems so much information it become to the point where you think you know what to do,but in my case am just getting more confused.

regards clock.:rant:

What do you mean by professionally honed?

A suggestion from a newbie:

. . . Simplify your tools, and work to a plan.

The requirements for keeping a razor sharp are:

. . . Some kind of fine-grained stone (your Aloxite barber hone would do nicely);

. . . A "pasted strop", with abrasive paste (the Dovo "green paste" would
. . . . do nicely);

. . . a plain leather strop.

A 10x jeweler's loupe ("diamond loupe", doublet or triplet lens) helps to see what you're doing, IMHO.

My suggestion:

. . . If the razor won't shave well, strop it 50 strokes on the plain leather strop;

. . . If it still won't shave well, strop it 10 strokes on the green-paste strop (yes, it's
. . . aggressive), followed by 50 laps on plain leather;

. . . If it still won't shave well, give it 5 or 10 laps on the Aloxite,
. . . followed by 5-10 laps on green paste,
. . . followed by 50 laps on plain leather.

If that doesn't work, you have three possibilities:

. . . Your technique is faulty (you won't be the first person with problems);

. . . The razor is _really_ dull, and needs to regress to a Norton 8K (or even coarser);

. . . The razor is no good (if it's a vintage Solingen blade, that's unlikely).

hi_bud_gl has suggested something similar, and he's sharpened lots of razors.

Charles

PS -- there's a huge amount of information in the Wiki -- too much, sometimes, with too many options. My "method" is only one out of many that will work. And I have borrowed liberally from others.

Thanks for the advice-will try what you have suggested today.
regards clock.
p.s the blade is a vintage solingen(the tang is stamped-madefrom kayser ellison and co-s best sheffield silver steel.
the box is green with the words colombi trade mark solingen nu 30.
the scales are cream in perfect condition with what looks like tw0 birds with there beaks pressed together with colombi directly below in a pale green logo surrounded in a silver outlined triangle.
I dont know anything about the razor so hope this helps.:)

I will try and get my son when he gets home later this week to take some photos
regards clock.

It's probably a bevel problem, caused by the "professional honing". Make sure you take good pictures in bright light of the bevel and spine.

By the way, for all beginners, when we say "professional honing" what we mean is that the razor has been honed by a straight razor honing professional.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

It's probably a bevel problem, caused by the "professional honing". Make sure you take good pictures in bright light of the bevel and spine.

By the way, for all beginners, when we say "professional honing" what we mean is that the razor has been honed by a straight razor honing professional.

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+1. Look forward to the pics.

just to say,tried your suggestion of 10 strokes green dovo paste,followed by 5o strokes on leather strop-tested the blade edge with a hair from my wifes brush,and although it wouldnt cut it clean by gently touching the edge,it did cut through by slowly moving it along the edge.
So i will shave with it tommorrow and see how it goes.
again many thanks for your practical advice
clock.

Please keep in mind that getting a good shave out of straight takes much more than a sharp razor, but good technique as well. No beginner will have good technique, it simply takes practice to develop. During that time, even with a perfectly sharpened razor, one should expect less than perfect shaves.

So my question is, who sharpened it? If it is a reputable sharpener, then it is your tehnique that is causing the problems. If it is someone who doesn't really know how to sharpen straights, then you have the problem of bad technique AND a razor that isn't shave ready.

The good news is that it shaved well after being honed...

That tells me that the strop and other day in day out
maintenance is where you first need to pay attention.

Barber hones work. Find Lynn's video on the use of
a barber hone. But the general rule with barber hones
is to set the back of the razor on the hone. Gently let the
sharp edge down on the hone then give the razor a smooth
hone stroke. Barber hones are short and narrow so an X stroke
is needed to cover the entire edge. Then reverse the process ... a total of four
to six hone strokes is all that is needed.

Then strop... Again set the back (spine) of the razor on the
strop gently set the blade to the canvas or leather and give
it a smooth a strop stroke. About 40 trips up and down the
strop.

Canvas after a barber hone is a good thing. Follow canvas
by leather. Then shave test...

Another barber hone trick is to use a touch of lather instead of clear
water to lubricate the hone. A touch of lather can make make a
barber hone act finer than it is.

thanks for the advice.
my routine is 50 laps on home made leather strop,shave then 25laps afterwards(was told this will dry the razor and the natural oils in the leather will help to protect the razors edge from rust developing.
my leather strop is a piece of 4"x2" wood,the 4" covered in leather and then tacked to the edge to make a perfect flat edge 30" long.My idea being that there would be no flexiing in the leather to cause any rounding off of the edge,and also the full width of the blade is then stropped without doing the x pattern. same for my pasted strop-just smaller.
I presumed that by doing this this would help eliminate as much as i could my lack of experience without effecting the overall outcome of my efforts.
I use as much care as possiblein all i do to try to get the desired result.
I had my razor sent away to a reputable razor restorer/sharpning service so
it must be my technique-just cant see that what i am doing is so wrong that
the blade will not give me a clean shave !

regards clock.

:argue:

sent photos hope they are ok.
regards clock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clock

hi everyone,
Just joined because i cant seem to get my razor to a sharpness that will do the hanging hair test or cut the stubble off my chin.
let me explain,i am well into middle age and have been given a razor by a relative(a colombi number30 ),the razor was sharp,but after shaving it wasnt sharp enough to give me a close shave,so i used a multi blade to finish my shave.
Decided to get it professional sharpned-whichi did,but after a couple of shaves it was back to its former self.
I made a paddle strop,and a leather strop,used dovo green paste on one side of the paddle strop and a white pastewitha10,000grit rating to use as a touchup.Also purchased a aloxite number 200 razor hone.
using lather and water on the hone must have done 300 passes-didnt inprove the edge at all,dontno what i am doing wrong ?
Have not used the green dovo paste as i believe it is to aggressive.
So 10/12 passes on the 10,000 grit pasted strop,followed by at least 300 on the aloxite still hasnt given me a true razor sharp edge ,
My thoughts were that the aloxite razor hone and the pasted strop would have been a good enought combination to keep my razor keen.
I would be gratful for any thoughts or advice that could inprove my chances of getting that shave,without having to outlay a fortune.
regards clock.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clock

thanks for the advice.
my routine is 50 laps on home made leather strop,shave then 25laps afterwards(was told this will dry the razor and the natural oils in the leather will help to protect the razors edge from rust developing.
my leather strop is a piece of 4"x2" wood,the 4" covered in leather and then tacked to the edge to make a perfect flat edge 30" long.My idea being that there would be no flexiing in the leather to cause any rounding off of the edge,and also the full width of the blade is then stropped without doing the x pattern. same for my pasted strop-just smaller.
I presumed that by doing this this would help eliminate as much as i could my lack of experience without effecting the overall outcome of my efforts.
I use as much care as possiblein all i do to try to get the desired result.
I had my razor sent away to a reputable razor restorer/sharpning service so
it must be my technique-just cant see that what i am doing is so wrong that
the blade will not give me a clean shave !

regards clock.


:argue:

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OK everyone else is being very nice here, so I am going to give it to you straight (pun intended)

You have basically destroyed the edge that the razor had, everything I marked in red is wrong, you took an edge that was shaving and ripped it's guts out..
It now needs a full bevel reset and a full honing to shave ready,,

While it is away being fixed you should read every Beginners tip you can find,, Then start from square one all over again, right at the cheeks from Sideburns to jawline and put the pasted strop and the barbers hone away for at least 1 month if not 2

Sorry to be so harsh but you need to hear the truth now... :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clock

sent photos hope they are ok.
regards clock

---

Can you post a link to the photo?

If you don't know how, here is a quick guide:

1) Have the photos saved on your computer, AND know where they are. (Desktop, photo album, some other folder).

2) Load the photo on a photo-hosting website like imgur: the simple image sharer
(Click the "upload images," then go to the folder where the picture is at, press "OPEN")

3) When the photo is loaded, click on it so that the photo is the only thing on your screen.

4) Go to the address bar, select everything, hold "CTRL" and hit the "C" key. (This will copy the selected text)

5) See this button here:
http://i.imgur.com/AZcql.jpg?6529

You want to click that a dialogue box will pop up. Hold CTRL and push the "V" key. This will paste the address of the image into the dialogue box. Press ok.

At this point the image should load into your reply, just as you see above.

dont apologize.you say i have destroyed the edge-but when i recieved my razor back from being sharpned i only stropped 50 passes onthe leather ,shaved and then 25 passes again only on the leather after drying it then put it away.
It was only after a few shaves that i felt the blade pulling that i tried the pasted strop,followed bythe aloxite.
I dont need to be told that i am doing something wrong- i need guidence as towhat i need to be doing with what i have to put things right.
Your suggestion of sending it away may be correct but i need to know whati did wrong before resorting to sendingitaway and making the same mistake.
I seethat you restore,and sell razors-your probably very good at what you do-please try and have patience with people that are less knowledgable as yourself.
After all isnt this website set upfor this very purpose?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clock

dont apologize.you say i have destroyed the edge-but when i recieved my razor back from being sharpned i only stropped 50 passes onthe leather ,shaved and then 25 passes again only on the leather after drying it then put it away.
It was only after a few shaves that i felt the blade pulling that i tried the pasted strop,followed bythe aloxite.
I dont need to be told that i am doing something wrong- i need guidence as towhat i need to be doing with what i have to put things right.
Your suggestion of sending it away may be correct but i need to know whati did wrong before resorting to sendingitaway and making the same mistake.
I seethat you restore,and sell razors-your probably very good at what you do-please try and have patience with people that are less knowledgable as yourself.
After all isnt this website set upfor this very purpose?

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But you are doing something wrong, that is what you need to know, you either
1. Stropped wrong
2. Shaved wrong
3. cleaned the edge wrong
4. prepped wrong

And it isn't a mater of patience you need to know that the problem is most likely in your hands, not the razor, I know this from what you have written so far...

"The razor shaved good then you did something and now it doesn't shave good anymore".. That 100 % tells me that it is in your hands -OR- the razor is of substandard quality and will not retain an edge... You have no way of knowing that in fact only a real expert would be able to figure that out in any reasonable time frame...

Now what else tells me that you haven't done your part is the "300 laps on a barbers hone".. No where, not one spot, anywhere on this entire site, will you find the words "Do 300 laps them try to shave" off any barber's hone, in fact on almost any hone, except maybe an Arkie but that is one of the reasons why we don't recommend them for razor except to experts with them...

This entire site is set up to help newbs, but you have to do your part and read the beginners sections..

I may have had some part in destroying the edge.

The Dovo "green paste" is way, way coarser than I assumed -- it's 5 microns, which is (very roughly) 5000 grit. That's coarse enough to degrade a bevel, and would give an edge too rough for good shaving.

I assumed that it was made with chromium oxide, which runs about 0.5 micron, and _is_ useful for "edge tuning" (after honing) on a pasted strop.

My apologies --

Charles

The 300 strokes on the Aloxite also could have caused chipping on the edge. A barber hone is, for the most part, intended to be used just for touch ups, using just 4 to 6 strokes at a time.

Glen's telling you what you did wrong WAS a way to give you guidance. Trust me, even if we don't necessarily always do it in the most sensitive manner, we are trying to help.

And I thought my sensitive side was showing :D :D

Awwww heck "clock",,, I'll be more sensitive, send the razor out here to me, and I'll see what is up with it, and re-hone it for you after I figure it out... The honing and analysis is on me, shipping is on you :)

Fire me a PM if ya wanna take advantage of the offer :D

The things that really jump out at me here are that your determination of the razor being sharp initially was based on a hanging hair test and shaving your chin for the first time with a straight razor. The HHT is not a reliable test for shave readiness and it can pre-dispose you to the assertion that a razor is not sharp when it is indeed shave ready. The chin should really not be attempted until you are really comfortable with shaving every other part of your face. Your chin is rounded and it is really hard at first to maneuver the razor keeping a cutting angle throughout the round part of the chin. This is normally why it tugs and scrapes as most people really are at a 45 to 90 degree cutting angle when shaving around the round part of the chin. It would not hurt to re-hone the razor and take on your technique a little at a time starting from the sideburn on your dominant hand side down to the jaw with short little strokes and longer clean up strokes. Then the cheek, the other side, the neck and on the chin, I recommend breaking it up into sections like under the lip, the sides of the chin and the round part last.

You definitely way overdid it with the barber hone as normally 5-6 strokes are plenty to refresh a razor. Next time, try just stropping and working on your technique before any corrective measures without getting some help or advise and there is plenty on the forum and in the wiki.

Good luck,

Lynn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clock

I dont need to be told that i am doing something wrong- i need guidence as towhat i need to be doing with what i have to put things right.

Not likely you can put things right at this stage without some corrective honing. Take up Glen's offer of repair & focus on you stropping & shaving skills.

Your suggestion of sending it away may be correct but i need to know whati did wrong before resorting to sendingitaway and making the same mistake.

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None of us were there to know what you did wrong initially but the most common mistakes in stropping are heavy pressure & mis-strokes that cause the edge to be rolled over or otherwise damaged while nicking the strop. You would not be the first person to have this experience so be patient with yourself :)

Thankyou for your offer.(respectfully decline )
I understand that using the aloxite for approx 300 strokes was excessive(even using lather).
The razor is still sharp,and i can still shave my whole face,i have no problen doing that.I know there is no where that says to use that amount of strokes,as i said i have only resently got the hone,my problem was that although i could and still can shave with my razor i felt that the edge still needed to have a finer/sharper edge to stop the pulling of hairs not just round my chin but on my cheeks etc.
I had originally only stropped carefully onleather before and after shaving but felt that the edge was not shaving its best.
only then did i use the pasted strop and then the aloxite.
I am open to all constructive critisism,its as i say i took care to do the stropping light touch,blade only pressure even strokes etc,these are things that i consider i was doing correct. The strokes on the hone i tried after,doing things on the leather and the pasted strop didnt bring the required results.
I thank everyone who has taken the time to write and i am sure that i will find a formula with what i have at my fingertips to eventully get the required result.
As they say practice makes perfect.
respectfully clock.
p.s. never laughed so much when you thought i was sensitive !!!
Just good manners and polite.

Quote:

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my problem was that although i could and still can shave with my razor i felt that the edge still needed to have a finer/sharper edge to stop the pulling of hairs not just round my chin but on my cheeks etc.

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Remember that getting a good shave with a straight takes more than a sharp razor. You can give a beginner the best razor on the planet, and they will still experience pulling because their technique has not yet developed. However, if the razor is dull, that beginner will not be able to discern whether or not the fault lies in the razor, his technique, or both. This is why it is so important for a beginner to have a shave ready razor.

In addition, honing is also an art that takes time to develop the skill to do properly. If you are just learning how to hone and have nothing to compare your own work to then you won't know if you are getting your razor in a shave ready condition. Even a razor that isn't shave ready will be extremely sharp, so without experience or a professionally honed razor to compare your work to, how will you be able to tell if you have achieved shave readiness? The shave test won't work since you have yet to develop your shaving technique.

Since your razor has been through so much, if I was in your shoes I would send it off to be honed. You have a very generous offer by gssixgun, who is a reputable honer. Why not take him up on it simply to make sure your razor is in shave ready condition?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clock

. . . my problem was that although i could and still can shave with my razor i felt that the edge still needed to have a finer/sharper edge to stop the pulling of hairs not just round my chin but on my cheeks etc.
I had originally only stropped carefully onleather before and after shaving but felt that the edge was not shaving its best. . . .

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A suggestion (FWIW):

. . . If the edge is _almost_ right, try a pasted strop with a fine paste -- e.g. 0.5 micron Chromium Oxide.

In my limited experience, it can turn an "almost-shave-ready" edge into a "shave-ready" edge, quickly. I'm talking about 5 - 20 laps.

See here:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...aste-when.html

and here:

What hone(s), paste(s), or spray(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki

If you're stropping correctly on plain leather, and the razor is good, you should
only need _occasional_ use of the pasted strop.

Charles