New UK Member and honing

Hi, I'm from the UK and still cartridge shave. I've been looking at straight razors lately.

Hi to everyone, nice forum that you have here.

I have read in the wiki and some of the threads here. I have a question about hones which I'm still a bit confused by.

If I buy a starter setup (for example from InvisibleEdge) it looks to cost about £65 for a basic Dovo carbon steel razor and £130 for the razor plus strop, shave soap, basic brush, etc.

My question relates to hones. It looks like if I just want to maintain this razor then I'd only need a 10k stone or around there, plus stropping as a minimum. But one of those stones costs more than the razor does.

So, the question I think I'm asking is how long is the razor likely to last with daily use and regular stropping before I'd need it rehoning, assuming that I have an 'average' face/beard? I'm trying to keep the initial cost low enough to get past the wife :p

Thanks, Tony.

Hi, and welcome to SRP.

A Dovo from the invisible edge is a good choice for a starter kit.
It will not stay sharp all that long to be honest, due to lack of technique.
Stropping takes a wee bit of practise to get right.

Instead of a new 10-12K hone, you could always look into a barber hone.
Those can be had for as little as 20 or 30 bucks if you keep your eyes open.
Tons of people have used that for years to maintain their razors.
Along with a good strop, that could very well be all you need for a long time.

A good cheap alternative is a rozsutec stone with 8k grit that you could get for 10 pounds approximately, though not very easy to find. Use it with oil and go light.

Thank you Birnando and Sterm.

Birnando, I think I'd read that buying a used hone wasn't very practical for a beginner (because you don't have the experience to know what you are buying).

Are there better places than ebay to look?

Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbaac

Thank you Birnando and Sterm.

Birnando, I think I'd read that buying a used hone wasn't very practical for a beginner (because you don't have the experience to know what you are buying).

Are there better places than ebay to look?

Thanks again.

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It shouldn't be a problem buying a used barber hone, or any other for that matter, just make sure whoever you buy it from flattens it before sending it to you, if needed.
If you find one you like, and feel uncertain about its flatness, just get some wet and dry sandpaper in 325 grit, lay it on a flat surface like a piece of glass or something, and do the job yourself.
It's really a very doable task:)

I know of only one who sell good barber hones out there, and that is gssixgun.
His website is gemstarcustoms.com.

+1 to the barbers hones or a naniwa 3k/8k combo stone, alot easier and cheaper than the Nortons in the UK. If you are only doing basic maintenece this will be all you ever need. However, make sure the edge is honed professionally and not the factory edge. This way you can hold off on the hones for 4-6 months or longer YMMV. A strop with some chrome oxide will keep you going for a while. When the razor feels like it is starting to tug some hit your pasted strop about 5 laps then strop on linen or mesh, then leather and test shave. Birnando is right though, your edge won't last long b/c of the learning curve. So, read up and be patient.

I didn't know Glen sold barber's hones; thanks for the tip Birnando! :tu

Thanks again everyone.

I'm still pondering straight vs DE. I found an interesting article earlier raising a couple of points that I hadn't seen before regarding the differences.

The advantages of straight when compared to DE were given as the control that you have over the blade angle, the blade being longer leading to fewer strokes and that hollow ground blades are slightly more "pliant" allowing it to flex for small variations in the skin.

Against this the disadvantages were listed as the blade being much more dangerous, the maintenance required for a straight razor and the difference in shave time (if you take this to be a disadvantage).

This came from SuperiorShave.

I found this advice quite helpful because I'd mostly read comparisons giving some kind of "zen satisfaction" as the main advantage of the straight razor.

Regarding barber's hones, is there anywhere in the UK that would be good to get them from? I'm beginning to feel as though it will be a £40 difference between a barber's hone and a Japanese full size stone and that in the long run I'll be better spending the extra few quid.

Thanks again.

I just noticed in the "Shopping List" section of SRP it says not to buy a hone to start with:

"Do not buy them. Instead buy your razors shave ready. Familiarize yourself with the razor, finish your first few shaves and learn to strop. A strop with a fabric component will extend the life of the edge compared to just leather. If you can not maintain your razor sharp with regular stropping on canvas and leather you will dull it even more with a hone. "

The last sentence seems to say that until you can use a strop properly, attempting to use a hone will only make things worse. The paragraph together seems to say that if you buy a hone before you're ready then you might do something stupid, such as trying to use it.

Following this logic, if you spoil the edge through mistakes while stropping, should you send it off to get re-honed?
Shopping list for beginners - Straight Razor Place Wiki

In a word - yes.
My suggestion would be that you get yourself two shave ready razors and have one ready to go while one is out for touching up - in the short term anyway.
That way you won't need hones for a while and you can get your technique sorted out.
If you want to get into honing later on you will have a 'reference' blade to compare against as well.

Okay thank you. At least this way I can learn to hone after I've learnt the basics of shaving and stropping rather than trying to learn it all at once.

I was a bit worried that I'd spend the money and then not use the kit due to the razor having lost its edge and me being too embarrassed to send it off for honing having bought one myself :D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbaac

Hi, I'm from the UK and still cartridge shave. I've been looking at straight razors lately.

Hi to everyone, nice forum that you have here.

I have read in the wiki and some of the threads here. I have a question about hones which I'm still a bit confused by.

If I buy a starter setup (for example from InvisibleEdge) it looks to cost about £65 for a basic Dovo carbon steel razor and £130 for the razor plus strop, shave soap, basic brush, etc.

My question relates to hones. It looks like if I just want to maintain this razor then I'd only need a 10k stone or around there, plus stropping as a minimum. But one of those stones costs more than the razor does.

So, the question I think I'm asking is how long is the razor likely to last with daily use and regular stropping before I'd need it rehoning, assuming that I have an 'average' face/beard? I'm trying to keep the initial cost low enough to get past the wife :p

Thanks, Tony.

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First off, as you're coming from cartridge shaving, I'd recommend a gentle learning curve. Start out with a cheapish DE razor, a brush and learn how to create lather. Whether it'll be in a bowl or straight on the face. Once you're comfortable with that and have learnt the techniques with DE shaving, then perhaps move onto Straights.

That was the route I was recommended (exc. straights) and it worked for me. I got to be competent making lather and understood the direction that the hairs grew on my face.

After about 6 months, I succumbed to the lure of a straight. If you want to go down the route of a straight, I'd echo what Birnando said, get a simple straight from The Invisible Edge. You know it will come shave ready and can start to hone your shaving technique. Best tip, go slow and don't rush it. I'd also recommend getting a stop so that you can maintain the edge. Now there are many schools of thought about strops and as a beginner you will knick the strop, however careful you are. So might as well get a cheap one.

Personally I chose a hanging strop to start but have now moved onto paddles, I find them just more convenient and one less thing to worry about is the cupping.

This should be enough to keep you going for a while and you'll probably need to get the straight "refreshed" after about 4-6 months. Best bet is to send it off to a honemeister. There's a few around in the UK.

Steve from the Invisible Edge
Neil Miller from the Strop Shop

Or other members, such as Jamie (username: Celticcrusader)

Good luck and enjoy :)

Thanks JodyPress. Getting a DE such as a 34c might be useful I guess and would mean that I could buy some of the straight razor kit prior to perhaps buying the razor and strop later.

I had been wondering about using a brush, proper shave cream/soap and lather. The chemicals in canned shave foam are often mentioned as a disadvantage of not shaving with a single blade. However, won't cartridge razors work with proper lather?
What I mean is if someone continued using a cartridge razor but used a badger brush and a proper lather from soap, they'd still be rid of the "canned goop"?

I liked the idea of getting a DE though, I'll hopefully order one soon and continue to watch SRP for some more tips.

btw, re Lynn Abrams' DVD: How does that compare to what's available on youtube from people such as GeoFatBoy for example?
(Sorry Lynn, had to ask...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbaac

Thanks JodyPress. Getting a DE such as a 34c might be useful I guess and would mean that I could buy some of the straight razor kit prior to perhaps buying the razor and strop later.

I had been wondering about using a brush, proper shave cream/soap and lather. The chemicals in canned shave foam are often mentioned as a disadvantage of not shaving with a single blade. However, won't cartridge razors work with proper lather?
What I mean is if someone continued using a cartridge razor but used a badger brush and a proper lather from soap, they'd still be rid of the "canned goop"?

I liked the idea of getting a DE though, I'll hopefully order one soon and continue to watch SRP for some more tips.

btw, re Lynn Abrams' DVD: How does that compare to what's available on youtube from people such as GeoFatBoy for example?
(Sorry Lynn, had to ask...)

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Hi tbaac,

Ditching the "canned goop" is a great first step. I don't see any reason that you can't use that with a cartridge razor, but I'd go for a cheapish (<£30 ish) DE to se if it's for you. It's a definite learning curve, so take your time.

There's plenty of help out there. Youtube is brilliant for tips and tricks. GeoFatBoy and Mantic 59 are great to get you started.

Once you've got comfortable with DE and are ready to give straights a go there's plenty of online videos to help too. I've heard great things about Lynn's DVD but I've never seen it so can't comment. I found plenty of help online.

People on hear are pretty friendly but it's predominantly US based. Check out The Shaving Room if you want more UK based help.

Good luck and happy shaving :)

Jody

Not quite as shiny as the invisible edge's offerings but whipped dog can get you up an running on a budget.
Whipped Dog Straight Razor Shaving Equipment

Combined with a King 1k/6k from: Buy Japanese Combination Waterstones from Axminster, fast delivery for the UK
& one of the Chinese water hones from the Polish guy on ebay: New Chinese Water Hone / Waterstone for Straight Razor | eBay

and I think still floats under the £130 razor/strop budget.

Thanks again Jodypress. I'm a fan of Mantic59's work as well, but didn't mention him earlier because he does more DE related videos from what I have seen.

I just read an article of his on horse hair brushes. Apparently its a good idea to wash them with pet shampoo prior to first use ;)

Thanks Proinsias, I didn't know that Whipped Dog shipped to the UK. I think I'm going DE for now so I'll just buy here but I'll remember that for the future.

Welcome to SRP