a medical reason for a pre-shave prep of a "lather and rinse" with soap and water

A simple lather and rinse with regular soap serves as my face prep. Washing with soap reduces the number of bacteria on the skin, although it can't "sterilize" the skin. (reference below for a hand washing experiment) Theoretically, that should decrease the chance of redness and irritation caused by bacteria getting into small breaks in the skin. Lathering with shaving soap and shaving without first rinsing-off don't do the trick, because the bacteria are still in the lather until rinsed away. After the initial lather and rinse, the switch to shaving soap gets me the shave performance I want, on a cleaner face.

Shaving after showering would accomplish the same thing, I suppose.

I gave this advice to the concerned mother of a young person plagued with bumps and redness after DE shaving. A simple soap wash and rinse, followed by a standard DE shave did the trick.

I use an olive oil based soap with lavender essential oil which purportedly has some antibacterial effect. The soap and water prep seems to work whether or not I use lavender soap, which I choose for its fragrance.

Reference:

M. Burton, E. Cobb et al,
The Effect of Handwashing with Water or Soap on Bacterial Contamination of Hands

Int J Environ Res Public Health. 2011 Jan; 8(1): 97–104.

Published online 2011 Jan 6. doi: 10.3390/ijerph8010097

I believe you are correct, pre washing does remove a lot of bacteria, it is my practice before shaving.
After an back operation and the resulting infection that nearly killed me it is clear that bacteria can take a man down in a hurry and antibiotics are less effective than ever.

After reading that article, I think I'll go wash my hands again...

I do agree that washing your face before hand helps, otherwise you are spreading the stuff around your face and possible into open cuts.

hang on,
there is nothing to suggest that bacteria are the cause of redness post shave!
perhaps the pre shave prep worked in other ways such as lubrication or whisker softening.

I'm not sure I want sterile skin! Bugs are part of the normal skin carpet and environment, and not necessarily nasty things.

Yes but you aren't using a disinfectant. I would agree the world, thanks to hype marketing, has gone stupid for disinfectant products and the world is a worse place for it. Plain soap on the other hand is excellent and should be used regularly to prevent illness/infection.

Soap doesn't actually kill bugs, all it does is make it easy to wash/wipe them off. Simply using a regular soap pre-shave, and properly drying your face (drying is key) "removes" many bacteria but certainly does not sterilize.

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Originally Posted by Damo

hang on,
there is nothing to suggest that bacteria are the cause of redness post shave! ...

I'm not sure I want sterile skin! Bugs are part of the normal skin carpet and environment, and not necessarily nasty things.

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Damo, you make an excellent point that skin needs some bacteria to be healthy. Certainly, we do not want sterile skin. Most redness after shaving is probably just irritation, not infection. The medical term for that is irritant contact dermatitis.

Some redness after shaving is infection. That is actually a well proven consequence of shaving. From the NY Times, citing a study in Lancet, a medical journal:

"""
On June 11, [1983] the editors of The Lancet called on surgeons to stop shaving patients because it is dangerous. They cited evidence that skin damage from preoperative shaving leads to increased rates of infection after surgery.

Studies with scanning electron microscopes show that a razor shave by even skilled hands produces nicks, invisible to the naked eye, that can provide entry points for microorganisms, providing a focus of infection that may begin before the incision is made. Even electric razors can do the same. Intact skin acts as a mechanical barrier to the entry of such germs.

The timing of the shaving affects the wound infection rate. When shaving was done immediately before surgery, the infection rate was 3.1 percent. Shaving 24 hours or more before surgery raised the infection rate to more than 20 percent in one study, probably because infections had time to get started in the nicks and scratches and presumably then spread at the time of surgery.
"""

I'm not suggesting that skin be sterilized. Good old soap and water does the trick by reducing the number of bacteria, without completely eliminating them. The risk of infection goes down. SOME cases of redness will be avoided. That is all I am saying.

The researcher in me wants to dig into medical journals and find 5 journal articles that refute the one or two article posted - because they are most certainly there. For every medical journal article published, there are three more that refute it. It doesn't mean it's not valid it simply means that medicine is not an exact science. I think making a conclusion that some cases of redness from shaving might be mitigated by soap and water if the redness is caused by bacteria - is a perfectly reasonable conclusion. Unfortunately, it's not actually supported by any of the research cited. It could have been done - but that wasn't the research question going into the study and therefore the research method didn't include variables and metrics to answer that question. Again - it's certainly a reasonable conclusion and one with which I probably agree (as stated in your last post boshave) - but the scientific reality is that the conclusion is empirically unsupported from a pure research perspective - given the research cited.

..and no - I don't have time to dig into the medical journals. It's a black hole for a researcher with far too much research of his own to conduct...

Adam

I won't argue the point about a pre shave lather and rinse with soap and water may reduce the bacteria count on skin and possibly some redness/irritation. OTH if you uses an AS with alcohol, alum block or witch hazel post shave I'd bet they would do a similar job of lowering the bacteria count just as well.

Bob

Thank you all for the useful replies.

I agree that the matter hasn't been scientifically tested, and that the articles I mentioned addressed the questions, "can shaving lead to bacterial infection?" and "does soap and water decrease the number of bacteria on the skin?" not specifically whether soap and water lessens the risk of redness after shaving. No settled science here, and no double blind controlled study in the offing, which would be kind of hard to do. My (empirical and wholly unscientific) personal experience is that some cases of redness from shaving can be mitigated by a soap and water pre-shave regimen consisting of one lather and rinse before shaving. I have seen others benefit from that advice, using basic soaps without antiseptic. That's the reason I posted that prep in this forum, just as a suggestion.

I hoped it might be useful to some.

BobH's point about AS with alcohol, alum or witch hazel lowering bacteria counts makes perfect sense,as well. That may well be one reason why after-shaves have such a long history and loyal following. They bring much more than just a favorite fragrance to the table, er .. sink.

This has been an interesting proposition. I have been straight razor shaving for something close to 40 years and to date I have never had an infection while in the beginning I managed to accumulate quite a few nicks at the beginning. Even now, after all that time, I manage to get at least one nick per month or so. However, I do like the concept of pre-washing ones face, at least with the hottest water tolerable prior to the shave. My thought is not necessarily to reduce bacteria, but to ready the face better for shaving.

I wash before every shave just to remove surface grime and to soften the whiskers. It is a pre shave ritual I have done for going on 40 years. I disinfect after with a high alcohol AS. Put in on heavy and let it evaporate on its own. Then balm up.

What is the acronym AS stand for. I am not familiar with many of the acronyms used here.

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Originally Posted by Glock27

What is the acronym AS stand for. I am not familiar with many of the acronyms used here.

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AS = Aftershave

Thank you....I use the Nivia cream. The other stuff has too much alcohol in it and burns my face.

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Originally Posted by Glock27

Thank you....I use the Nivia cream. The other stuff has too much alcohol in it and burns my face.

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Are you using Nivea's Sensitive Post Shave Balm? If so, I recommend rubbing your face with an alum block right after you've finished your shave and rinsed your face with cold water. Once you've rubbed your face with the alum, wait a minute or two, and then apply your post shave balm. If you prefer, you can rinse off the alum before you apply the post shave balm.

Alum has the astringent and antibacterial properties of alcohol, but lacks alcohol's drying and irritating side effects—making it, in my opinion, superior to any aftershave containing alcohol. As a bonus, alum also does a good job at stopping nicks from bleeding (although a styptic pencil is even better).

I am familiar with alum as a pickling agent in powder form but have never noted it in "block form". I am making a presumption that it is found at some shaving emporium. Would witch hazel do the same. I have not tried it. I use to use Mennen after shave, but as I said, it burns and I just got tired of it. I would use a cold water cloth for a few moments and forget it. I am not one to get into much detail, I rarely if ever use a cologne. I am pretty much a fundamentalist in areas of this nature. The less I have to spend the happier I am, just too many unforeseen incidents along the road of life. Recently I had to dump $10,000 into having my leaking basement repaired. After that has just kept raining down unforseen's left and right.. It is six a.m. now and I will check into the alum blocks.
Yeh, I could not go without a styptic pencil. Don't nick myself much anymore, but when you do the pencil is better than a bit of toilet paper to wear on your face for awhile.

Many people use witch hazel and it will work.

Any good shaving shop should stock alum blocks. They typically last for months, or even years, and I've seen them as low as USD $3. You can usually get them cheap at "ethnic" markets, such as a small Middle Eastern or Indian convenience store (the kind that sell groceries as well as cigarettes, personal care items etc.).

I've never used witch hazel, so I've no clue whether it does the same things for your skin. Maybe someone who has experience with witch hazel and alum could chime in.

Another advantage (or, possibly, disadvantage) I forgot to mention is that your face will sting after applying the alum block only when your shave was not smooth, i.e. there are microscopic nicks on your face with no visible blood. I like this a lot because it gives me immediate feedback on my prep, blade, and technique. If one of those three variables is performing poorly, your alum block will alert you. The more it stings, the worse one of—or any combination of—those variables is.

I always hand wash my face vigorously with Ivory soap and then rinse off prior to lathering. I never thought of the bacteria removing aspect of it; I've been doing it for years as my pre-shave prep to soften my beard. Glad to know it has another beneficial side effect.

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Originally Posted by Sxot

Yes but you aren't using a disinfectant. I would agree the world, thanks to hype marketing, has gone stupid for disinfectant products and the world is a worse place for it. Plain soap on the other hand is excellent and should be used regularly to prevent illness/infection.

Soap doesn't actually kill bugs, all it does is make it easy to wash/wipe them off. Simply using a regular soap pre-shave, and properly drying your face (drying is key) "removes" many bacteria but certainly does not sterilize.

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care to explain why drying is key? i always shave after showering, taking care to wash my face and neck well with regular soap, and before applying my shaving soap i use a hot rag to soften the hairs(which works really well i think) and then apply soap while still moderately wet from the rag.

i do have problems with ingrown hairs and am looking for solutions, hence the reason im asking about drying?


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