Thread: That 1700's Show

Originally Posted by engine46

Nice..!!
And I thought I was the only one with a unique shave bowl/scuttle.

I have one of those razors Mike!

U should shave with it, Steve. They give incredible shaves.

Mail call! Since most of the stuff in there is 1700s, i thought I'd do a dump here, also because i'm looking for info and tips!

First, the main event! How is this a "shorty"? Don't get me wrong, i love it, but given the dip-at-toe (Seemingly)...was it reground? did someone make this blade like this? Is it even 1700s, didn't know they made shorties back then. So far my guess is Birks? But who knows - any info would help please! The original scales were yellow bone or horn of some kind.



I finally got a 7 day box! a LOT smaller than I expected, and DAMN that is FILTHY. Again, any tips on cleaning it. I have half a mind to just rip off the inside and redo everything...were I more handy with a saw and wood. Obviously, the box isn't 1700s...




Back to the regularly scheduled programming. Bonus blades that need to be restored. I'll start with this one, no scales... i can make it PAR maybe PARI? And a crown, but it seems the letters around the crown if there were ever any have been lost. So...Joseph Justice?


And lastly, another norris razor. Again, needs cleaning, restoring etc. (Should I try my hand at it? best not to eh?)

Originally Posted by outback

U should shave with it, Steve. They give incredible shaves.

I need to dig it out Mike. I think it is one that will shave.

What are the kinds of dimensions on these old razors, scaling up some images the blades seem narrower although with the same length of edge. The tang seems shorter than modern razors also.

Originally Posted by thp001

What are the kinds of dimensions on these old razors, scaling up some images the blades seem narrower although with the same length of edge. The tang seems shorter than modern razors also.

Stub tail razors are amongst the oldest straight razor designs and are called stub tails because the tail is a mere stub compared to modern razors. The straight razor has evolved to it's current form over the course of 300+ years. There are some straight razors with no tails to speak of too. Even though the length of the blade from tang to blade toe has remained relatively the same the blade size has grown and the grind has gone from near wedge to full hollow.

Bob

Originally Posted by thp001

What are the kinds of dimensions on these old razors, scaling up some images the blades seem narrower although with the same length of edge. The tang seems shorter than modern razors also.

Like later razors, they could be quite variable. Here’s a small grouping of 18th century razors ranging from about 1740 to 1795 with a pretty standard-size 6/8 Wade & Butcher from the 1860’s for comparison.



Generalizing is a bit dangerous because the physical record of surviving specimens is so much smaller and more heavily worn down.

For example, the Henry Birks razor at the bottom exhibits very typical wear from the popular pasted strops of the era. The paste was often an abrasive and applied to a rounded and somewhat cushioned strop. The effect of use was ostensibly a sharper razor, but also it was like honing it every day. The end result is that many if not most 18th century razors have the cutting edge worn down significantly.

The razor directly above it was from an unknown maker probably in the 1770’s and is unusually free of use wear.

Above that is a Joseph Hall razor (with the Queen Mark he purchased from Thomas Bromley in 1789) and a little bit of wear, then a John Shepherd from near the end of the century also with little wear.

Blade width was typically about 6/8 or 7/8 but both smaller and larger examples exist. Many of these razors are considerably longer than later ones, with a commensurately longer tang.

Tail length was also extraordinarily variable. Some older Sheffield razors have tails of an inch or more, others like the Birks are short.

And this is just English razors.

French, Belgian, Dutch and German razors were all presumably different in smaller and larger ways, though I haven’t seen many examples of Belgian or Dutch razors and no German razors from the period. Jean-Jaqques Perret wrote in his 1769 book that the long tails of the English razors were a design mistake that would lead the user to cut themselves, and indeed many French razors from that period have no tails to speak of. It’s important to remember though that the cutlery trade in France was not nearly as centralized as the English trade and as a result there are bound to be examples that don’t conform to Perret’s fashion.

Earlier razors were different still:



On the bottom is an unidentified razor most likely from some time in the 1600’s, above it is a Samuel Creswick razor from Sheffield in the 1720’s and again the same Wade & Butcher for comparison.

The old razor has been significantly ground and lost much of the original decorative blade geometry. Most likely it was made with a long spike-like tail and heavily beveled spine. Noteworthy is the anchor stamp mid-blade, a marking strategy still in use when Creswick made his razor in Sheffield.

The very old razor would have been well over 8/8 when new, but with a very short tang. It’s cutting edge extends almost to the pivot, where most English razors of the mid-to-late 18th century have a generous tang area. Likewise, the Creswick razor also has a much smaller tang and a very strange tail that looks upside-down compared to newer razors.

(as an aside, what looks like wooden scales on the Samuel Creswick razor are actually bone)

I hope this helps!

Thanks for the info. I'm currently making an 18th century style razor based on some scaled images of a razor made by Wm Warburton. I have true to size outlines of the scales, and I then used this to determine the size of the blade. The blade width came out to be near 7/8ths which I suspected was too large, I had the impression that steel being somewhat relatively expensive at the time blades were much narrower but it seems could be mistaken. What more do you know about the pastes used for stropping back then? I have seen some mid 19th century emery pastes used for knife boards (leather covered wooden boards for polishing knives) but nothing as early as the 18th century.

Image for reference.

That one is mine and I would just measure it for you, but it is currently an ocean away so I can't. However, I will say that of the examples I have that are closest to being unused, many measure around 7/8. I have one or two 8/8 and a monster 11/8, all of the same blade design from the period. Whether larger blades was the norm or not I can't say. The following are all around 7/8:









And here is the monster 11/8 blade: https://sharprazorpalace.com/show-te...-stubtail.html

I think Zak might have some knowledge on period pasted strops.

Here is the replica blade that I just made. It is ready for honing and scales.

Thanks for the info. Are the spine thicknesses the same as for modern razors? ie 1/4 of the blade width? Are the tangs tapered also? Sorry for the barrage of questions, I appreciate all the help.