@ armiller17: that is a very nice Dorko # 14 with some hefty scales as well!
Thanks for sharing the pictures. Guess it's very special to have such a beautiful # 14 with family history to shave with?
Regards, Jazor.
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@ armiller17: that is a very nice Dorko # 14 with some hefty scales as well!
Thanks for sharing the pictures. Guess it's very special to have such a beautiful # 14 with family history to shave with?
Regards, Jazor.
Fantastic blade,enjoy.Is still a conundrum to me as to just what #12-#13-#14 means,is not blade size,am thinking maybe wgt.Nobody seems to know:(
Well, in most cases it seems to be somewhat more linked to size than weight.
The difference in width on a DT, Sub Cero, MT or Novodur /All fillies) in #14's are minute.
The weight is far from that, the DT is little more than half the width of a EPBD or Sub-cero over the spine.
In other words, the weight seems to vary much much more than the width on Filarmonica's at least.
I have a few others as well, and the same seems to be the case there.
Tend to agree,but people here have also said they have #14s that are orig 5/8 razors.Granted all my 14s are huge.some over 8/8.all over 7/8.
The only visual I can see on all 14s is the oversize shanks regardless of blade size,still find it confusing.
Yeah, I would sure like to know the origin of the use of those numbers, and also find something more than just the internet buzz about the whole German blank theories that tend to float around:)
I personally find them very hard to believe, seeing as there are so many and big differences in the various makers #14's.
Than we have the Japanese numbering system:) what do it all mean?
Great postings guys: it cracked me up that perhaps we are trying to make sense of something that is truly not logically related apart from "coincidental overlaps"?
This is one of the reasons why I started this topic: to see if we could find the so called communal thing that binds all #14's together.
One of the other reasons is just to make the biggest possible collection of world wide #14 pictures so all enthusiasts can enjoy them.
The more beautiful #14's I see posted
from totally different brands,
from totally different countries of origin,
with totally different measurements,
etc,
the more I start to get convinced that apart from the #14 branding they are not related.
Other views / inputs and pictures of course very welcome.
Kindest regards, Jazor.
Thanks for starting the thread Jazor,has become an obsession with me:( will have some new additions later in the week.
Is one common denomenator I find interesting.Was eluded to early in the thread that there may be swedish marked 14s,none have surfaced yet tho.
Only two countrys seem to have used the 14 designation (whatever it means) Germany and spain which seem to have been closley linked at one time,I do have a Solingen Palmera made by Ferd.Herberz & Cie.
The search continues:)
@ Pixelfed: that's an interesting observation regarding countries of heritage. It made me look around on other fora where I'm running a # 14 topic and I found an exception.
In one of the other fora someone posted a "Nichiri King Pelican 13/16 quarter hollow #14" which apparently comes from Tokyo.
Since it's not my picture, I can't just post it here: will ask permission to share it here to poster in question.
That King Pelican not only breaks the mold of "Germany or Spain", it also breaks the mold in it's looks and size.
Regards, Jazor.
Believe the pelican was mentioned early in this thread,Missed it.
King pelican 14 is in my picture of s collection of 14s.
Excellent: that solves the King Pelican #14 issue.
Still interesting to see other #14's that were made outside the usual #14 regions such as Germany and Spain.
Here I'm not counting the Hoppe's as they are from Argentina I believe since one Henckels master razor maker emigrated there from Solingen.
Regards, Jazor.
So, here is one more King Pelican #14
http://s2.pticica.com/foto/0001266963_l_0_0wzbfg.jpg
@ KING2011: thanks for helping out with the requested posting of your KingPelican. What's the size and what background info can you share with us?
Regards, Jazor.
Couple new additions,JMP Imperial in Ivory,Ldo.Sommer&co. Merscheid-Solingen
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...oandimp001.jpg
So, the size is 13/16 with qurter hollow grind.
I bought it from a member life2short1971 few months ago in a Mint condition.
As for shaving matter - I can freely say that this razor is in top 3 from all of my razors. Very easy to hone and provides very smooth and very close shavings.
@ pixelfed: those are nice 14's! Thanks for sharing the picts with us.
@ KING2011: thanks for the update. It's the first Japanese 14 I've come across.
Kindest regards, Jazor.
@Bill(pixelfixed) and @jazor I went back and found this picture from earlier in the thread that @globaldev posted, all of the 14's have a similar profile except for the pelican. The pelican varies from the others most in its over all length, if you look at this picture you can see it is about 3/4 the overall length of the Spanish and German 14's. Another big difference is the curve of the heal of the blade. I offer up two ideas on why the pelican is so different
1: assuming all 14's are rough blanks then given to other companies for finishing, japanese razors, namely kamisori's have a much shorter blade length. Maybe the blank was simply adapted by the maker to the more recognized size in japan.
2: It wasn't uncommon in the past for japanese companies to copy popular items from other countries without fully looking into what markings mean, there is currently a japanese razor in the back of the classifieds that has "solingen" marked on the tang even tho it probably has nothing to do with germany
just some ideas i had while reading this thread.
-justin
@ justinA: thank you Justin for sharing your theory. This is what this topic is all about: sharing pictures, facts, fiction and theories together.
Regards, Jazor.
Thx J,all good observations.Other than the fact that the Pelican is a beautiful Blade,it has nothing in common with the other 14s (except the number)
Has got to be some common denomenator to 14s,is part of a numbering system such as Filly 12-13-14.
Blade profile,size,wgt???????????? you just do not stamp a tool,any tool, with a number without a meaning.
Bill, I have an idea somewhat inspired by what you said about barbers ordering "3 #14's" suppose these blades were predominantly marketed to barbers, if so the numbers 12, 13, and 14 could denote size ranges. I have seen a trend in that all NOS 14's lie between 7/8-8/8+, #13's between 6/8-7/8-, #12's 4/8-11/16, I imagine barbers would all have a size preference and to save time for both barber and salesman the barber could for example say "let me see what models you have in a #14 since that's what I like" or "what do you have in #12 I need a new razor for under the nose and tight spots" the numbers appear only in semi modern blades in areas that were developed and had many razor producers, it's possibly it was a classification system at the height of barbering itself and not necessaily the height of straights.
Note: Some I've seen that don't fit the size mold never seem to be NOS even if claimed.
Just a thought.
Ps. I really want one of those pelicans now, I will be on the hunt for one at a decnt price, the addictions steps it's level up again!
Bill, I have an idea somewhat inspired by what you said about barbers ordering "3 #14's" suppose these blades were predominantly marketed to barbers, if so the numbers 12, 13, and 14 could denote size ranges. I have seen a trend in that all NOS 14's lie between 7/8-8/8+, #13's between 6/8-7/8-, #12's 4/8-11/16, I imagine barbers would all have a size preference and to save time for both barber and salesman the barber could for example say "let me see what models you have in a #14 since that's what I like" or "what do you have in #12 I need a new razor for under the nose and tight spots" the numbers appear only in semi modern blades in areas that were developed and had many razor producers, it's possibly it was a classification system at the height of barbering itself and not necessaily the height of straights.
Note: Some I've seen that don't fit the size mold never seem to be NOS even if claimed.
Just a thought.
Ps. I really want one of those pelicans now, I will be on the hunt for one at a decnt price, the addictions steps it's level up again!
The Pelican and the matching Strop are awsome in their own right but are a totally different animal from any of the #14s I have seen... I have the set and it would be among the last razors to ever leave my collection
I still find it rather odd that the old advertsing isn't giving us clues to this conundrum, if the #14 was as sought after as we seem to think they are then why haven't we seen bragging rights ????
If these are alll razors made for barber use, then it could be something that was intended for barbers and salesman to discuss and have nothing to do with blanks all produced from the same forges, the numbers could simply be industry knowlege in a time when industries kept secrets from the public, and as for the profile they are similar but not exact maybe that profile and grind was just a huge success somost companies produced one of their own as to not miss out on a popular demographic? Look at cars there are always cars that to someone not into cars could easily mistake or for another because the size and profile is so popular, BMW 5 series, Audi a4, and multiple Mercedes, all ridiculously similar from different companies.
I've been thinking about this a lot the past two days. Lol
Glen,pls explaine sought after and bragging rights,you do not see alot of 14s so how would they be sought after?back in the day.
Justin you bring up great points,Straights were nothing but tools of the trade,pure conjecture on my part but say a Barber was doing 30/50 shaves a day at a buck ea. would he want to swing a 14 all day?
Maybe they bought differant sizes for differant customers,say you have some little skinny guy with angular features,maybe the barber would want a #12 blade in say 5/8 or whatever, next customer is a 300 lb, hog jowelled banker,so maybe the barber would use an 8/8 14,lot more surface area to cover,maybe less time and motion (wiping/rinsing lather)time spent= money made.The old time shops I have been told were busy places,move them in, move them out.
Has to be an answere,not a clue tho.
Look at the brands ie: DD, Boker, Henckels, and many of the American ones, we see quite a bit of old advertising whether the claims were true or not makes no never mind, but I have not seen the same for any of the #14 stuff and this question has come up way more then in this thread...
But no one has popped an ad yet
"Preferred by Barber's the World over the famous #14 Razor"
"Blanks Forged at the Henckenrath Razorwerks forge in Solingen Germany"
"Final Grinding and Doble' Tempering done by Filarmonica
Or something like a competitor ad saying
"The DublDuck Wonderedge 8/8 size razor now something that shaves better then the old #14"
See I have seen nothing like that and that doesn't make any sense to me :shrug: we see ads about everything they could think of to sell razors but nothing about the #14 ?????
BTW the #14 Filarmonicas were downright plentyful just 2 short years ago there were at least 20 on ebay NOS in the package every day ... and that means they had papers in there
Glen, the problem and the question is/was,what is a 14? you still see tons of filly 14s,how do's a 14 differ from a 13, or a 12? blade size? (NOT) this is a great thread for educational purposes,keep an open mind:)
On the Filarmonicas, yes the blade size IF you are looking at NOS, but also the "Design" differs too the classic hump back doesn't go with all of them or the grind... you are also correct on the weight because of the tang thickness changes
#10 #12 #13 #14
3/8, 5/8, 6/8, and 8/8 in NOS.. there were some later models that were sold at Classic and a few other places that didn't follow any of the old rules and were not number stamped that sized in at 7/8
But I haven't seen any other numbers yet... Note how I keep mentioning NOS because once they have been honed a few times the size is no longer legit...
Attachment 96577Attachment 96578Attachment 96579Attachment 96580Attachment 96581here is my latest 14,i have a few i just finished cleaning this one up next stop bathroom ...oh ya has enybody heard of the brand i cant find it on google
thanks
It just occurred to me that these brands were made by US companies and/or sold in the US. Obviously they were well promoted.
The 14s mostly come from Spain and Germany. I will start looking for advertising to see what will come up. I didnt think of this before :tu:
Hi guys: very entertaining and interesting postings since my last visit. Just read up on all theories, postulates and hypotheses: thanks for sharing.
The marketing remarks caught my attention. For sure in Europe the marketing was way behind that of the US market.
There where in the US there were no holds barred on what one could "lie" to sell, in Europe many of the "serious" straight razor producers perhaps tried to fight on quality and performance of the item more.
Still there might be some gain in the perspective of looking at it from the marketing side: "where there's smoke there's fire" kind of a thing....
No matter how interesting all this is: we might be chasing a mirage (French word) as the #14 stamping might be pure and utter coincidence?
Keep the pictures and postings coming: thoroughly enjoy all this!
@ abdul61: that's a brand I have not seen yet, thanks for sharing. Also never heard of it and it'd be interesting to read if someone can share some information?
Kindest regards, Jazor.
I got a few to add. First is a 15/16 #14 Herder.
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/...9/39bc1a6c.jpg
Next is the first and only #14 ERN I have ever seen. It's branded PIK but they are a ERN rebrand, also you can see the eagle and snake ERN logo on the back of the tang. It measures 6/8.
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/...9/2671012f.jpg
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/...9/d326a6ab.jpg
Thank you. No the ERN is a 3/4 hollow and the Herder is a 1/2 hollow.
@ Honed: thank you for sharing those beautiful pictures! The "PIK / ERN" is one I have also not seen before.
Kindest regards, Jazor.
Just picked this up on the 'bay. Never heard of this brand, but razor looks in mint condition and quite unsual. Eagerly awaiting its arrival.
Attachment 101722
Attachment 101723
Attachment 101724
Here's another #14.
I have quite a few of the #14's in my collection, including a bunch of Especial Para Barbas Duras's.
But this is my only Tridur EPBD.
As with all the other, and especially the Sub-Cero's, Novodur's and EPBD's, this is a stellar shaver still, regardless of it looking a bit worse for wear:)
It was featured in today's SOTD as well.
Attachment 101725