Razor ID Help! W & H Rontons Superior Razor (Pictures attached)

:shrug:

I picked up this razor for a few shekels because it looked quite old and was really in pretty nice condition. The old scales are horn with a classic tapered rectangle look and squared wedge end (wedge is lead), and the washers are original bulls eye type. I figure it is mid 1800's but I cannot find any info on this whatsoever???

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I've restored it and have fitted it with a classic set of Vulcanite (Ebonite) hard rubber scales. It is a wonderful shaver...very smooth like a typical Sheffield.

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Any help from the experts (Martin, Neil, etc.) would be appreciated!

Thanks.... :thinking:


WP34

I'm sorry Wolfie. I know that I am a bleeding heart razor traditionalist, but I can't imagine replacing those great old scales. Without having any proof, they look to me like they are tortoise shell. I could be wrong, but those scales look like they could have been given a long drink of mineral or neatsfoot oil and brought back to a nice luster. Everyone to their own tastes and I'm glad you are happy with the final results. Sorry I can't help with the history.

Regards - Walt

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Originally Posted by Walt

I'm sorry Wolfie. I know that I am a bleeding heart razor traditionalist, but I can't imagine replacing those great old scales. Without having any proof, they look to me like they are tortoise shell. I could be wrong, but those scales look like they could have been given a long drink of mineral or neatsfoot oil and brought back to a nice luster. Everyone to their own tastes and I'm glad you are happy with the final results. Sorry I can't help with the history.

Regards - Walt

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Walt...I haven't gotten rid of the original scales. Just haven't gotten around to making a determination if they are at all restore-able. They are DE-laminating quite a bit at the pivot point and I am afraid that "a long drink of mineral or neatsfoot oil" won't do the trick on these.

Besides...the Vulcanite scales that I am using are Very Traditional from around the mid 1800's I would guess. They came from another razor dated to that era. Do a search here on SRP for Ebonite or Vulcanite and I think you will be surprised.

WP 34

I've been digging for info about W & H Ronton, but I cannot turn up anything. Not only can't I find anything about them as a manufacturer or even retailer, I can barely find any people actually named Ronton. Most hits are transcription errors for Boston or Renton. So, unfortunately, that's going to remain a mystery until the various archives up their OCR game.

What I can tell you is that it was almost certainly made in Sheffield for a retailer somewhere else. The most reliable hits on Ronton as a family name are all in Yorkshire but there are one or two in America.

It was probably made between 1830 and 1850. Of the few other Ronton razors I've seen (there're a couple running around out there -- I've even bid on some simply because the name is a mystery), the probable date of manufacture has been the same.

Yours appears to have been reground by an expert. It was not originally a hollow grind.

Like T. Ascher, E. L. & Co and Taylor's XQ SITE, it's almost impossible to know who made these because they were commissioned pieces. My gut instinct is that the Ascher, E.L. & Co and likely Ronton as well were all made by William Stenton, but I have absolutely no evidence of that. Taylor's XQ SITE is another story, since the extant examples cover a wide range of time and styles.

As for the scales, gutta percha / vulcanite wasn't used much for scales until the 1880's, so I'm afraid it's a bit anachronistic for this razor.

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

I've been digging for info about W & H Ronton, but I cannot turn up anything. Not only can't I find anything about them as a manufacturer or even retailer, I can barely find any people actually named Ronton. Most hits are transcription errors for Boston or Renton. So, unfortunately, that's going to remain a mystery until the various archives up their OCR game.

What I can tell you is that it was almost certainly made in Sheffield for a retailer somewhere else. The most reliable hits on Ronton as a family name are all in Yorkshire but there are one or two in America.

It was probably made between 1830 and 1850. Of the few other Ronton razors I've seen (there're a couple running around out there -- I've even bid on some simply because the name is a mystery), the probable date of manufacture has been the same.

Yours appears to have been reground by an expert. It was not originally a hollow grind.

Like T. Ascher, E. L. & Co and Taylor's XQ SITE, it's almost impossible to know who made these because they were commissioned pieces. My gut instinct is that the Ascher, E.L. & Co and likely Ronton as well were all made by William Stenton, but I have absolutely no evidence of that. Taylor's XQ SITE is another story, since the extant examples cover a wide range of time and styles.

As for the scales, gutta percha / vulcanite wasn't used much for scales until the 1880's, so I'm afraid it's a bit anachronistic for this razor.

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Thanks so much for the information Voidmonster...My best guess was that it was from that era (early 1800's) but now with your expert opinion I feel even more comfortable believing it.

If it is to remain a 'mystery' as far as origin, I guess that is not so bad after all. It is a very nice shaver even with the chronologically incorrect scales. ;) If I can do a decent restore on the original scales...they will find their way back on this razor!

If it was manufactured by W. Stenton & Sons (c 1837-1846) that would correspond date wise also. If it was I would be happy because I have 2 Stenton's and they are both GREAT razors. Here is a pic of one, a 8/8 beauty (c 1846-1860) that is currently on the project table being restored. Interestingly the Stenton is inscribed on the tang "AGAIN SUPERIOR" whereas this Ronton simply says "SUPERIOR RAZOR". :shrug:

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Thanks again Voidmonster...and thanks much to Martin and Neil and all for helping me find out more about this "MYSTERY"...

I love mysteries!

WP34

One of these days I'd like to get one of the AGAIN SUPERIOR razors. The three Stenton-stamped razors I have are from before he got the whole family involved.

In an era when work conditions were generally terrible, Stenton was famous for being an abusive boss. He started as a kind of foreman working for the Sanderson brothers. Around 1829 he went to work for Wostenholm, but he only stayed there for 2 years before lighting off for New York City with his family.

If he was actually responsible for them, I'd guess most of the mystery-stamps (Ascher, Ronton, E.L. & Co) were produced around the time he got canned from Wostenholm. I have to stress though, this is pure speculation on my part.

The word superior showed up in a lot of marketing at the time. Sort of like 'Advanced', 'Pro', or 'HD' does now. But the Devil Stenton seems to have been excessively fond of it.

The records for him are really scattershot. Tweedale's account has him merely working as a warehouse manager for Naylor & Sanderson from 1820 to 1829, but I have 'Stenton' stamped razors with the G(crown)R stamp on them, which is a pretty clear indication he was at least branding razors with his name during the 1820's. Apparently, he helped launch Wostenholm's American business -- which is really a big deal. That was one of the most successful Sheffield businesses of the 1800's.

Very interesting historical tidbits Voidmonster. I also understand that Stenton was the agent for F. Feeney razors (Talley Ho)...might not have the razors stamped with the Stenton brand actually have been manufactured by Feeney?

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Originally Posted by Wolfpack34

Very interesting historical tidbits Voidmonster. I also understand that Stenton was the agent for F. Feeney razors (Talley Ho)...might not have the razors stamped with the Stenton brand actually have been manufactured by Feeney?

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It's certainly possible, but once you start talking about razors made with someone else's stamp on them questions of who 'really' made them become incredibly murky.

Essentially, the firm whose name is stamped on the tang is the client. The vast majority of those names owned their own workshops and factories, but the workers actually rented space to do their work. The work they were doing wasn't always for the people that owned the space. There were a lot of different reasons that could happen, and while the owners might not have liked it very much it was in their best interests to let it happen. Sometimes there just weren't enough buyers for their product. If the workers didn't have anything to make, they'd starve. It was a very hand-to-mouth economy down at the production end.

The workers paid rent on the workspace and tools, they paid for the gas lighting, even the materials. So if an owner didn't have work, but the workers were doing freelance, the owners still got money.

It was also very common for people to work at two or more different factories.

More interesting info...Too bad that the actual 'makers or workman' weren't able to mark their blades with their initials or some kind of mark. It would be really cool if we could follow the actual craftsman from razor to razor regardless of the manufacturer.

WP34

Interestingly, Stenton made a razor with "Superior Razor".

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Originally Posted by Wolfpack34

More interesting info...Too bad that the actual 'makers or workman' weren't able to mark their blades with their initials or some kind of mark. It would be really cool if we could follow the actual craftsman from razor to razor regardless of the manufacturer.

WP34

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In one of the old books I've read on the cutlery trade, I remember someone saying that people that worked the trade could tell which individual was responsible for which blade based on small but characteristic details. Sadly, all that kind of deep trade information is completely lost. It's doubtful any of it was ever recorded, and even if it had been it's not clear it could have been recorded in a way that'd be helpful to us now.

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

In one of the old books I've read on the cutlery trade, I remember someone saying that people that worked the trade could tell which individual was responsible for which blade based on small but characteristic details. Sadly, all that kind of deep trade information is completely lost. It's doubtful any of it was ever recorded, and even if it had been it's not clear it could have been recorded in a way that'd be helpful to us now.

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Sad indeed Zak...but I suppose that for me anyway the 'history chase' as it were is good enough. With the info that you have provided for this razor...educated guess or not... I at least have, as I expressed to Martin, 'a history story or sorts' to tell when asked about this razor. To me that is way more satisfying than just saying "I don't know".

Thank you for all your help and valued insight Zak! :beer1:

WP34

A friend of mind recently showed me a copy of his W and H Rontons straight razor. Does anybody have any updated information about its origin or relative value?Attachment 236873