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i just recieved my razor from fendrihan and its SHARP out of the box, it passes the hanging hair test, they said it was sharpened by thiers but is not listed as shave ready. should i still hone it? or use it as is? also they honed it really unevenly.
Give it a test shave and see how it goes. If it is passing HHT, good indication it's going to shave fine.
If it starts to pull, stop and sharpen it up.
im also concerned that the people who honed this razor has done some uneven honing? its hard to see because the other side is completely polished....
click the image for full size
http://s17.postimg.org/4qyie7wfv/razor1.jpg
http://s12.postimg.org/l8g9fs5k9/razor2.jpg
i should mention im pretty new to this
deejay-
It does look like it might be a bit "off" at the back side heel. It's hard to see the show side heel (slightly out of focus) to compare it though.
The bottom line, of course, is that it must please you. if it bothers you, return it. Ive never dealt with them (I'm in the States) but Fendrihan has a good reputation for standing behind their products.
rs,
Tack
should i tape the spine to hone it?
That's just a matter of personal preference, not a case of right or wrong. Personally, I decided to tape everything just so it would become a habit and I wouldn't forget to tape that one with the fancy spine.Quote:
Originally Posted by deejaykamoe
rs,
Tack
thanks! and with a razor like this with a factory edge what process should i use, i have a 4000/8000 norton and a naniwa 12000 and a chromium oxide balsa....can someone tell me how many strokes to do, with or without pressure roughly
I am not a pro honer but you could go two ways about this. You could start at the CrOx and do about 10 laps or so and then your normal stropping. When I refresh on CrOx I do 10 laps and then 40 linen and then 100 leather but thats just me. If that doesn't cut it (pun intended), then you could go to the 12k and do 10-20 laps and repeat with the crox and again with the 8 if the 12k doesn't work. The easiest way though would probably be just to start with the 4k and work your way up. You could try doing the pyramid as I have found it to be the easiest way to learn to hone and get good consistent results. Just look up the pyramid method in the wiki. If Fendrihan said that it was supposed to be shave ready then I would suggest you tell ask them about it and see if they can rehone it. Before all else though I would go ahead and try to shave with it as is. That way you can 1) figure out if it is in shaving condition and 2) if it isn't, you now know what the edge feels like so that way when you hone you can see if you have made an improvement to the edge or not. Good luck and hope everything goes well.
im trying to understand the pyramid method, it shows as follows so i go back and forth from the 4000 to the 8000 for all the steps like 200 strokes in total? sorry its written a little vaguely
Honestly dejay, I would suggest that you have it honed by a pro or a fellow member if one is nearby. That way you will have a shave ready reference point for future comparison.
Later, when you feel that the edge is beginning to lose a little, you can touch it up with that 12K SS. Now if you really want to dive into honing, the bevel on a factory edge is usually sound so you can start with the touch up. I'd try 10 or 15 X strokes on plain water with little or no pressure - just the weight of the razor - then strop carefully & shave test. If it seems to pull/shaves poorly, you can try the touch up again.. if it's still not up to snuff the bevel needs to be reset and, once again, you really should send it out. I know that you want to jump right in with both feet, we all do but trust me, you'll be better served by sneaking up on the shave. Baby steps!
BTW, if you do send it out to be honed, shave with it the first time without stropping. Then strop for the second shave. That way you will know if your stropping technique is good (it's easy to ruin a good edge while stropping if your technique is way off.)
rs,
Tack
I have a couple of TI's, and while I had them honed before they were shipped to me, I'm told that of many razor companies, TI comes the closest to selling factory edges that are the closest to shave ready.
If I were you, I might try a shave first and see how it is.
If it's not, I would ship it out to have honed by a pro unless you are confident in your honing skills. A nice TI is not a blade I would use to learn on.
good idea! i have a razor i can learn on, i have a question. i need to put a bevel, and i only have a 400 stone, what would the method be if i set my bevel on that then do the big jump to the 4000? how many strokes with pressure or without should i do extra because of that huge jump
You're asking the wrong guy that...even though I've got just over a dozen nice razors, I haven't started honing, and haven't decided if I even will. Like anything worth while, it takes a lot of practice and patience to learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by deejaykamoe
I've got the linen side of another strop pasted with DOVO white / grey paste, and a CroX balsa board. So far, that's about as far as I'll go with my own blades.
Tomorrow, heading to a class with a honemeister to learn how to use the coticule I have in order to take refreshing my blades to the next step. With the amount of razors I have, all professionally honed, and learning to refresh, it should be quite some time before I have to send one out for honing.
The investment for stones, the time to get proficient at honing, may not be worth it to me, when I can keep my blades refreshed, and periodically send one out for, what I know will be, a professional honing.
As the saying goes, whatever works...
If a razor is near shave ready, or just needs an edge in good shape to be reset, I would not go near a 400 grit stone. The 400 grit stone is for blade restoration (removing large chips, uneven wear from bad honing) where a lot of steel needs to be removed. To avoid unnecessarily creating difficult to remove deep scratches in the steel, a 1K stone is what is used for most edge resetting rather than a 400 grit before progressing to the higher grits. Even the 4K stone can work for edge setting, if the edge is in relatively good shape. A lot of damage can be done with a 400 grit stone.
The 8K stone or higher grit is used for finishing after edge setting or for touching up previously shave ready edges. Pasted strops are inexpensive and also work for touching up razors. Jumping from 400 grit directly to 4K is a big jump and could be compared to jumping from a wood rasp directly to medium to fine sandpaper on a board to be used for making furniture. You will be sanding ("honing") for a very long time to remove rasp scratches if you skip 1st using course sandpaper before using medium and fine sandpaper after rasping.
HTH
+1 on what sheajohnw said. Put away the 400, the 12K, and the balsa strop and learn to use the 4k/8K first if you must hone. If it's not right coming off the 8K, that 12K SS won't help it.
Don't be too eager to take a blade to the stones. Remember that if you start with a shave ready razor you can keep the edge going forever with just light touch ups and proper stropping and never have to hone at all. Reread phrank's post above - the way he's set up he may never need to hone. Now.. want to hone is another thing entirely. :)
Beyond setting the factory edge in the first place, honing is for resurrecting a edge that has been physically damaged or let go too long between touch ups . Even in those cases, you should do as little as is needed; this game is a real case of less is more.
rs,
Tack
I am no expert on honing but what you just described sounds like it is for a complete bevel reset which you don't need right now if the razor is shaving. I would not touch that new TI with hones until you decide if you are going to send it back because of the uneven honing at the heel, any TI warranty is voided if you do it yourself IIRC. Secondly I would not recommend to you to practice honing on a brand new razor with no experience honing.Quote:
Originally Posted by deejaykamoe
Bob
That razor doesn't look quite right to me. I wonder if it was sold to someone and they honed it and caused that issue. TI's may not be the best finished razors new but I've never seen an edge like that from the factory. Maybe one of our honemeisters will give an opinion. You might just want to send it back.
I am with the the others here that recommend you send it back because of what appears to be wonky honing from the factory. It is supposedly brand new and should be free of any possible defects. At least contact the seller and see what they say.
Bob
I have purchased seven new Thiers Issard this year. Several from Fendrihan, the balance from Invisible Edge in the UK. What the OP has is typical TI. It will probably be shave ready. Five of my seven were. He should shave with it first. It if is not satisfactory try a linen strop with a paste like Thiers a issard white. Fendrihan sells it and it works very well. If he must hone it one layer of tape will work well. On mine I worked up 2, 4, 8, 16K on Shaptons. The C135 hones well and will hold the edge. His TI will be a superb performer but with TI buy for the overall performance and features, not the detail in the workmanship. He could send it back but the replacement will probably have similar issues.
U2u
That is a pretty sad state of affairs what you are describing as being likely the norm from TI these days. For what you have to pay for a new razor these days that would bother me and likely why I hesitate to buy new these days. I can live with flaws in razors that are used and cheaper. As far as performance goes, I have not found a brand that is head and shoulders above others if they have a good edge.
No doubt though that the OP's TI will shave well regardless though.
Bob
That is what some of the new Thiers Lissard heels look like, though that corner seems a bit sharper than most. I would and have reshaped TI heels, that heel will cut you.
You can see the hone marks on the spine over the heel that go right up to the stabilizer. The stabilizer looks too high and may need reshaping as well, to hone the heel properly as well as rounding the heel corner to make it a safer shaver. It looks to me from the photos that the corner was ground to deal with a high stabilizer, extra pressure was then used to get the bevels to come together.
I own a few “Old” Thiers Lissard’s and have hone some “new” Thiers’ and the quality/detail and especially the finish are not what they were. They do shave nicely once tune, but personally for the price, you should not have to tune them up, they are not Gold Dollars.
You can put a touch of sharpie ink on the stabilizer and strop the razor over the heel, if the ink comes off, it is too high and is probably the source of the problem, hard to say from 2 photos.
For what you probably paid for the razor, I would send it back. You could buy 2 nice vintage TI’s for about the same price.
The photo is a new TI with corners I have worked on and even that is too sharp and in need of rounding.
The other photos are of a couple of old TI's I recently acquired and are in line for cleaning and some buffer time. Note the corners.
Attachment 143913 Attachment 143918Attachment 143919Attachment 143920
I was looking at your photos again and noticed that the face side half of the stabilizer has almost been ground off, yet on the other side it goes all the way to the ground edge. So the stabilizers are not even on both sides of the blade.
I don’t know how that happens as both sides should have been stamped at the same time.
That blade has issues, I would definitely send it back.
