Does anyone have any experience with transporting ivory?

Hey,

Thanks to the classifieds from here, I recently acquired an antique (pre-WW2) straight razor with ivory scales.

However, I am going to be travelling overseas soon (SE Asia), and I was hoping to take it with me, partly because it's a great shaver, and partly because I don't want it to go out of sight for three weeks. I find it difficult to stop looking at (I'm sure you're all overly attached to your razors too), or if there's a burglary/ fire, I wouldn't want to lose it.

Due to the UK being the UK, there's a lot of restrictions on what you can or can't do/ bring/ say/ think.
When the seller sent it to me, it only travelled from within the EU, and he still had to pay quite a bit for the appropriate certificates.

So, is there any way that I would be able to carry my razor with me while I travel?
Any information would be appreciated, especially since I intend to leave the UK in a few years.

I would advise against taking a razor that you are very attached to(especially if it ,might get confiscated) with you when you travel by air, you never know what's going to happen to your luggage.

If I were you, I'd take either a beater razor, a DE/shavette or even a multi-blade abomination.

It's listed in SITES, you need a permit to export it outside of EU.
I'd recommend you to let it stay home.

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Originally Posted by Baxxer

If I were you, I'd take either a beater razor, a DE/shavette or even a multi-blade abomination.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

It's listed in SITES, you need a permit to export it outside of EU.
I'd recommend you to let it stay home.

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I had a horrible feeling that that would happen. I refuse to use the sort of razor that women would use to shave their legs, so I think I'll just take a cheap shavette, or possibly a less beautiful razor, as you suggested.

When I leave the UK permanently, would I just have to get a SITES certificate?

Yes, to export it legally you would, but it's hard to get even for museums, I'd just pack it with all my other shaving things and let lady luck have a go.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Yes, to export it legally you would, but it's hard to get even for museums, I'd just pack it with all my other shaving things and let lady luck have a go.

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Ehh.... I'd rather not get prosecuted if possible. Didn't you recommend to leave it earlier?

I'll keep it in the UK for now, then when I finally get the opportunity to move overseas, to the US, I'll get the documentation required.

The only situation I can think of, where it gets confiscated, is when they scan it and see the razors. Then when they open the case to inspect them, they find that they're ivory. So I'll see what happens with bone razors, since they look similar to the untrained eye.

Hopefully, none of the NSA ****s reading this will think I'm planning on smuggling ivory, because I can assure you that I'm not.

Haha, yes leave it for your trip but if your moving then pack it!

Even if it's legal ivory the custom can give you lots of trouble, they say it's their job!

It's CITES, I had it wrong, check here; Welcome to CITES
and then see who's in charge of permits in the UK, probably some agriculture department or such.

Is funny,Great Britain Devestated the elephant herds back in the day of Both Africa and India.
Two Yrs ago they sold two Million lbs of Ivory to China:)

In theory, all posts are right.
But now a question, are you sure, customs know, how the ivory handle of razor looks like? May be, it's a simple "bone" handle.:)
Of course, it can happen. But I'm not sure, that they will ask expert. IMO.
The last 4-5 years, I visit UK every year, to spend a good time and to buy razors, especially in ivory. Nobody asked me about razors.

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Originally Posted by manah

In theory, all posts are right.
But now a question, are you sure, customs know, how the ivory handle of razor looks like? May be, it's a simple "bone" handle.:)
Of course, it can happen. But I'm not sure, that they will ask expert. IMO.
The last 4-5 years, I visit UK every year, to spend a good time and to buy razors, especially in ivory. Nobody asked me about razors.

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Yea, I was thinking about testing the waters with some polished bone scales.
If they can't see bone, they can't see ivory.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Is funny,Great Britain Devestated the elephant herds back in the day of Both Africa and India.
Two Yrs ago they sold two Million lbs of Ivory to China:)

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They also had the largest empire in history. No one would dare cross the imperialist thugs.

But now, open borders to all EU citizens, won't deport IIs for their human rights, supporting thousands of people who can't be arsed to work (I have no issue with paying taxes to support those who truly can't work), and are overly sensitive to anything that has a possibility of being interpreted as offensive by a gay trans-sexual ukrainian who got into the country illegally. The government bends over backwards (or more likely, forwards) to allow these things to happen. All for the sake of tolerance and political correctness.

But that's a rant for another time and thread.

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Originally Posted by Amenrab

Yea, I was thinking about testing the waters with some polished bone scales.
If they can't see bone, they can't see ivory.

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The diff between Ivory and bone is night and day.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

The diff between Ivory and bone is night and day.

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There is a distinction, but what are the chances of an average customs officer being able to adequatley spot the difference?

The ivory is at least 75-80 years old, so parts of it merge from white to amber, but the bone is slightly yellowed too.

I'm not too sure how to embed on these forums.
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7d2ddbcb.jpg
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/...ps709cef1b.jpg

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Originally Posted by Amenrab

But now, open borders to all EU citizens, won't deport IIs for their human rights, supporting thousands of people who can't be arsed to work (I have no issue with paying taxes to support those who truly can't work), and are overly sensitive to anything that has a possibility of being interpreted as offensive by a gay trans-sexual ukrainian who got into the country illegally. The government bends over backwards (or more likely, forwards) to allow these things to happen. All for the sake of tolerance and political correctness.

But that's a rant for another time and thread.

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You could easily be describing the conditions in a number of countries some of which you may wish to immigrate to. You cab run but you can't hide. The is also the possibility that you may need to have clearance from the country you wish to immigrate to legally import ivory into that country.

Observing all the legal niceties can grueling so I imagine most simply ignore the niceties. :angel:

Bob

You know, if you are determiined.... In prison I hear the colon is used often for smuggling...

Lucky for you I'm retired now. I used to do Customs enforcement work-har har.

You would be surprised what most Customs guys can tell and not tell. It's not a Customs thing really more fish and wildlife and if they suspect anything it's shelved for future research and can sit for months until someone gets around to it.

Don't even try and get a permit for it. You will need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was a pre ban piece and you need paperwork for that. If you don't declare it and they find it it's history and you can be prosecuted though for a small piece like that that won't happen.

The U.S is really lax with that stuff. Some countries hold ivory verboten period old or not and if you are found with it they will lock you up and throw the key away.

Yea, you pays your money and you takes your chances when it comes to stuff like that.

Bob

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Lucky for you I'm retired now. I used to do Customs enforcement work-har har.

You would be surprised what most Customs guys can tell and not tell. It's not a Customs thing really more fish and wildlife and if they suspect anything it's shelved for future research and can sit for months until someone gets around to it.

Don't even try and get a permit for it. You will need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was a pre ban piece and you need paperwork for that. If you don't declare it and they find it it's history and you can be prosecuted though for a small piece like that that won't happen.

The U.S is really lax with that stuff. Some countries hold ivory verboten period old or not and if you are found with it they will lock you up and throw the key away.

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The seller has the certificates to prove that they were pre-WWII.
He described them as being "a hand written paper signed both by a professional appraiser with knowledge on fress animal tissues and fossilized ones. And a customs officer who accepted the paper as valid for near future shipping."
Is this the sort of thing I would need?
Also, the ivory is quite yellow now, so it looks antique.

What would your recommendation be?

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Originally Posted by Amenrab

The seller has the certificates to prove that they were pre-WWII.
He described them as being "a hand written paper signed both by a professional appraiser with knowledge on fress animal tissues and fossilized ones. And a customs officer who accepted the paper as valid for near future shipping."
Is this the sort of thing I would need?
Also, the ivory is quite yellow now, so it looks antique.

What would your recommendation be?

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Why don't you just follow the link that Lemur gave you to the CITES website and get a telephone number and talk to a real person who knows his job?

I have done that on a number of occasions and found the UK office very helpful. It's what they are there for.

Regards,
Neil
(Imperialist intolerant thug who wants to bring back hanging and extreme chavinism and force women to give up the vote and not worry their pretty little heads, but with a soft side)

Put it in a razor roll with the rest of your blades,than put it in checked baggage,all will be fine.

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Why don't you just follow the link that Lemur gave you to the CITES website and get a telephone number and talk to a real person who knows his job?

I have done that on a number of occasions and found the UK office very helpful. It's what they are there for.

Regards,
Neil

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In a similar vein, I once carried a piece of whale bone from Tonga to New Zealand. Whale bone is a prohibited
item, but I did declare it and I did have a letter of permission from Tongan authorities.

Upon arrival at the Auckland airport, it was confiscated by NZ Customs. I was questioned about it's origin, but
I was not cited for a violation. I was advised to contact a particular customs officer the following day to explain
the situation, and perhaps "something could be done."

The bone was destined for a medical school professor, who taught a class in Maori medicine. After a day or two,
customs released the bone to him, and that was that.

I think that if you play it straight, there's a good chance that you will have no difficulty. The problems arise
when you are caught trying to conceal something from Customs.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Amenrab

The seller has the certificates to prove that they were pre-WWII.
He described them as being "a hand written paper signed both by a professional appraiser with knowledge on fress animal tissues and fossilized ones. And a customs officer who accepted the paper as valid for near future shipping."
Is this the sort of thing I would need?
Also, the ivory is quite yellow now, so it looks antique.

What would your recommendation be?

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The only thing that would concern Customs in the U.S is if it is pre-ban or not and nothing more. Usually documentation means something with at least a notary stamp on it or papers from the Govt of the country it came from. I once saw a case where someone was importing a 12 inch piece of tusk and we accepted a photo of the guys father who legally killed the animal years ago taken at the time of the kill along with other family documents.

Honestly, if I had to bring a razor with ivory scales I'd just pack it up and if it is discovered I'd play dumb and say it's a razor I've had for many years and my dad had it before and I haven't a clue what the material is. Unless you get a real hardass you should be OK.

What ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ he said,this is not a Kilo of China white.

Wow! As you're not going to be able to Carry it on the plane I really don't trust unlocked checked luggage. My suitcase was lost for 12 hrs in Orlando 2yrs ago. I had 2 weeks of shave stuff in it, along with my electronics and my daughter flute.
It all showed up but it was a lesson I won't forget. And no. I didn't have added insurance on it.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

What ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ he said,this is not a Kilo of China white.

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Quite so. Do tell us about the time you smuggled that through though, Pixelfixed. I hear you got to really like prison food after a while... :)

So it's all up to you!

I don't know how hard they are in the UK but in Sweden I know they can refuse to give you a permit even tho you legally should be able to get it,
and don't be surprised if you're being awaken by the police to do a house warrant the next morning... they sometimes get really crazy around here!