Techniques for stopping full hollows from skipping?

I've been using wedges for a couple years with good results. I recently decided I wanted to try full hollows again to see what kind of shave I can get. I just got a Henckels Friodur 7/8 hollow and had my first shave with it today. It was pretty good, but not quite as close as my wedges. The real test will come in about 24 hours when any potential razor bumps appear. If I have less ingrown hairs than with a wedge, I'll consider that a success.

My question is, there was a lot of skipping over my week-old beard. I find that if I shave more than once a week the razor bumps get out of control. Is this too long to go between shaves with a full hollow? Is there something else I can do to prevent skipping?

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Originally Posted by supersco

I've been using wedges for a couple years with good results. I recently decided I wanted to try full hollows again to see what kind of shave I can get. I just got a Henckels Friodur 7/8 hollow and had my first shave with it today. It was pretty good, but not quite as close as my wedges. The real test will come in about 24 hours when any potential razor bumps appear. If I have less ingrown hairs than with a wedge, I'll consider that a success.

My question is, there was a lot of skipping over my week-old beard. I find that if I shave more than once a week the razor bumps get out of control. Is this too long to go between shaves with a full hollow? Is there something else I can do to prevent skipping?

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I'll assume that your razor is shave ready. What I find works best is to tighten the angle of the razor brining the spine closer to your face and using a scything stroke. The slight sideways action is enough to neutralize the skipping action that may otherwise come to pass.

I am not sure about to long. Sometimes when I am tired and lazy after the shower I skip the shave for 5 days or so. Then on my day off I have a great shave with a full hollow. Ever since I went to straights I have not had ingrown hairs like with cartridges. So I am not sure what is going on there. I know that wedges and cut full beards better. But Full hollows shouldn't have a problem with a week of growth.

Both the ingrowns and the skipping are sounding like technique issues. I know that there is some very slight variance between wedge and hollow. If I tried as slight of an angle with a wedge as I use with a hollow is gets sticky on my face and needs to open up a little. What is your prep and skin stretching like, both of those has been culprits for me in the past, especially on the neck.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

Both the ingrowns and the skipping are sounding like technique issues. I know that there is some very slight variance between wedge and hollow. If I tried as slight of an angle with a wedge as I use with a hollow is gets sticky on my face and needs to open up a little. What is your prep and skin stretching like, both of those has been culprits for me in the past, especially on the neck.

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Actually I've found that a shallower angle with a wedge works better for me than a higher angle. My prep work is extreme. I shower first and leave my face under water that is as hot as I can stand it for as long as can stand it. Before I get out I rub in hair conditioner and put Barbasol on top of that (it has stearic acid in it -- same ingredient as Proraso). I leave that on while I strop, then wash it off. I used to use Proraso as a pre-shave, but recently tried using a pre-shave oil. This actually has made a slight difference in shave quality. Not a lot, but my skin is definitely more moisturized. So I don't think I could do much more prep.

Stretching is not the issue. I stretch the hell out of my skin so much that my wife makes fun of me for the faces I make. The ingrown hairs on my neck are always an issue due to how flat the hair grows down there.

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I'll assume that your razor is shave ready. What I find works best is to tighten the angle of the razor brining the spine closer to your face and using a scything stroke. The slight sideways action is enough to neutralize the skipping action that may otherwise come to pass.

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It's definitely shave ready. Like I said, I got a pretty good shave with it. Just took a few more strokes in some places due to it skipping. I may have to try a shallower angle like I use with my wedge, and a scything motion.

I use to get ingrowns on the sides of my windpipe but when I started shaving with a straight they reduced to about 50%, as I shaved more often with my straight and my technique improved, my ingrowns have completely disappeared. Your prep is pretty extreme. I always skin stretch with the hand that isn't holding the razor as well as make faces. Often the changes we make that has the greatest impact are very subtle. Good luck and keep the little things in mind and maybe consider hair growth direction while shaving.

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Originally Posted by supersco

[...] and leave my face under water that is as hot as I can stand it for as long as can stand it [...]

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To me, that doesn't sound too good! Hot water makes your skin more sensitive, especially when you make it as hot as you can stand. Try your water a little cooler, it may help your skin. Also, I think everyone should at least once try a cold water shave, most people report great skin condition and closeness of the shave when they do. Who knows if that does anything to prevent the razor skipping, only one way to find out!

Me, I like warm water in the winter and cold in the summer. And cold when my girlfriend is taking a shower, otherwise she'll kick me.

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Originally Posted by supersco

Before I get out I rub in hair conditioner and put Barbasol on top of that ....

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It sounds like you are putting a lot of effort into your prep, and I applaud you for that, but I can't help but think that a dedicated shaving soap used to "soak" while stropping and to re-apply when shaving would yield significantly better results. The fact that is had stearic acid just means that it is in fact a soap. In fact, it is one of two acids that is used to saponify fats into soap. Hope this is at least a little helpful, best of luck and let us know how things works out.

Edit: Seems I was not quite correct on the stearic acid. Here is a link to a pgae with a short write up. (Still stand by getting some quality shave soap though)

Stearic Acid

"Stearic Acid will offer many of the same characteristics as palmitic acid. Once again, you'll gain hardness to your bar and add a creamy/stable lather."

"Palmitic Acid will add hardness to your bar and a creamy/stable lather. Careful though... too much can be over drying!"

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Originally Posted by RezDog

I use to get ingrowns on the sides of my windpipe but when I started shaving with a straight they reduced to about 50%, as I shaved more often with my straight and my technique improved, my ingrowns have completely disappeared. Your prep is pretty extreme. I always skin stretch with the hand that isn't holding the razor as well as make faces. Often the changes we make that has the greatest impact are very subtle. Good luck and keep the little things in mind and maybe consider hair growth direction while shaving.

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That's pretty much where I get them too. I do use my off-hand to stretch. I think the problem along my neck is that the hair grows extremely flat to the skin, and grows in a swirling pattern. So I can't ever get a WTG first pass down there. It's just not possible. Some of the hairs are always being cut both XTG and ATG.

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Originally Posted by MattCB

It sounds like you are putting a lot of effort into your prep, and I applaud you for that, but I can't help but think that a dedicated shaving soap used to "soak" while stropping and to re-apply when shaving would yield significantly better results. The fact that is had stearic acid just means that it is in fact a soap. In fact, it is one of two acids that is used to saponify fats into soap. Hope this is at least a little helpful, best of luck and let us know how things works out.

Edit: Seems I was not quite correct on the stearic acid. Here is a link to a pgae with a short write up. (Still stand by getting some quality shave soap though)

Stearic Acid

"Stearic Acid will offer many of the same characteristics as palmitic acid. Once again, you'll gain hardness to your bar and add a creamy/stable lather."

"Palmitic Acid will add hardness to your bar and a creamy/stable lather. Careful though... too much can be over drying!"

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Still might be worth a shot to lather up with my MWF (the only soap worth a damn, IMO) before stropping. I tried this long ago with other soaps but they dried out too quickly.

Haven't been using Wedges,mainly because Wedge honing and stropping is the pits. For 'comps' I would offer the Feather Str8.
Find the Feather shaves fantastic. As they have 'no' grind just an straight up and down like a wedge, I'd have to say its the Sharpness that makes the difference not the grind type???

Got a little too busy last week to update this, so here goes. I shaved on Wednesday with a three-day growth (I always shave on Sundays). I would say the skipping was better, but not enough to make the extra 45 mins to shave before work worth it. I'll keep shaving once a week I guess.

I changed my prep yesterday to only use MWF while stropping. It seemed to be a better shave. Fantastically smooth. I might stick with that.

Also, as I mentioned in my first post, the real test of any shave for me is ingrown hairs. I'm happy to report that with my new Henckels 7/8 full hollow I had no ingrown hairs at all this week. I'm a happy shaver :cool:

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Originally Posted by supersco

Got a little too busy last week to update this, so here goes. I shaved on Wednesday with a three-day growth (I always shave on Sundays). I would say the skipping was better, but not enough to make the extra 45 mins to shave before work worth it. I'll keep shaving once a week I guess.

I changed my prep yesterday to only use MWF while stropping. It seemed to be a better shave. Fantastically smooth. I might stick with that.

Also, as I mentioned in my first post, the real test of any shave for me is ingrown hairs. I'm happy to report that with my new Henckels 7/8 full hollow I had no ingrown hairs at all this week. I'm a happy shaver :cool:

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For what's it's worth, give this a try.

I used to do a lot of pre-shave stuff, I called it my, "shave parade", hot shower, hot towels, pre-shave etc, etc....

Then I read here about the cold shave.

Splash cold water on face, load the brush, thoroughly lather the face, shave like normal. I always like the alum block, so I'd use that, then AS.

All irritation was gone, no more irritated red areas around my lower right neck area, and a good DFS shave after two passes.

Once in awhile, it's a nice treat to throw a shave parade, but my stand-by is a cold shave, and I've never looked back. YMMV, but it's worth a try!

Cheers!

scalding hot water applied to your face is likely your problem regarding in-grown hairs. Tepid water will do well enough to open pores and hydrate the beard. Hot water will tend to dry your skin tremendously, mess with the balance of sebum production in the follicle and probably cause all sorts of irritation at a sub-dermal level. Not to mention, such hot water will soften your skin as well, so much so that you may be exfoliating way too drastically.

Please try your routine sans scalding hot water and report back. I'm curious now and would like to know if this helps.