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I have a Gotta 120 Razor that says it is silver steel Germany. I believe I have seen them saying Sheffield and I can't remember where the Sheffield was made. which has the best reputation now I know to each there own but which do people look for most. thanks ( just used mine from Germany and it's really good)
Many times with vintage razors German, or French, razors would be branded 'Sheffield Steel', while they were ground in Germany or France. Thiers-Issard branded razors with that info (Sheffield steel) as recently as the past 10 or so years. I've also seen Sheffield razors marked "ground in Germany." The Germans were the first to perfect full hollow grinding, while the Sheffield steel had a very good reputation, and must have been considered a selling point. I've read that a lot of the Sheffield steel was sourced from Sweden but I don't know for sure.
Thanks I didn't know if they shipped the steel to Germany or vise versa. I know the one I have shaves good and hones easily. I also like the way it feels in my hand. Guess i'll start looking for another and if I can find one marked Sheffield I can compare.
I think you may be confusing it with 'German Grind', or 'Hamburg Grind', which indicates hollow grind like in the german razors, rather than 'ground in Germany' which think would disqualify the razor from being manufactured in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
But if you do have a stamp 'ground in Germany' on a english razor, please post it so that we have it for the record.
BTW lots of german razors are even more specific to the steel source e.g. Kayser Ellison. It's just marketing.
What I really marked Sheffield was it English steel sent to and ground in Germany and german steel ground in Germany. which would be more desirable .Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
I haven't seen 'German steel' as being advertised. Swedish and English, yes, or various processes and compositions 'cast steel', 'india steel', 'bessemer', 'silver', 'stainless'...
The country of manufacture is where the razor was made, the materials could be sourced from anywhere. At some point certain vendors went as far as to advertise as a country of manufacture the place of the final assembly, i.e for a razor where you pinned the scales, but I think that's recent.
If your razor says 'Germany' that's where it was made. If it says 'silver steel' that doesn't indicate the source of the steel.
As Jimmy mentioned, i have seen razors made in Sheffield with "Ground in Germany" as well. I actually posted an article a while back talking about this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...de-1903-a.html
Seems like the old Sheffield cutlers didnt want to adapt to the new way of hollow grinding, perhaps they were sending razors to germany for hollow grinding because they could do it for a lot cheaper then Sheffielders.
Here a nice example of a Sheffield maker with German hollow ground, John Heiffor Sheffield.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Attachment 156838
Martin is it on the back side? I don't see the 'ground in germany', just "german" hollow ground on the blade.
Nothing on the back side, are you thinking that "German hollow ground" is more a style?Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
You see many example of Kropp razors (English even though the name could be German) where the tang states ground in Sheffield on some and ground in Germany on otherwise identical razors.
Maybe it's as simple as just 'outsourcing' when demand required it.
Yeah, that's how I'd parse it, especially with it being on the blade where the decoration goes instead of on the shank where all the legally required stuff is, and with "German" in quotations.
But, that old article of 1903 says they were sending razors to be ground in Germany, and it seems that several people have seen the stamp jimmy says, so there may be something to it.
I personally find it very interesting because it goes to what does origin of 'manufacture' actually means.
Here's one stamped on the reverse of the shank:
made in england
ground in hamburg
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...ml#post1281668
........ :popcorn: ........... ";"Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
"Grah & Plümacher
Inh. Gebr. Plümacher.
Solingen-Weyer: Brüderstrasse 25 in 1939 and 1983.
Brand names: 'Feinklang' (1921), 'Silver Ring', 'The Gael', 'The Gotta' (1922).
Open-blade razor maker"
Found here
It is made and ground in Germany (Solingen) by Grah & Plümacher, a solid Solingen manufacturer. It probably says "Silver Steel Germany" since for manufacturing the Gotta (and possibly others) they used Sheffield steel besides German steel (or whatever other steel they used), so they either wanted to avoid confusion or add some cool sounding piece of info on the razor. In the end it's a German razor made in Germany by a German manufacturer with Sheffield steel.
I was going to post this earlier, but didn't get home from work until now.
Gotta 120:
Attachment 156849
My Gotta 120 says Finest Silver Steel Real Hollow Ground in Solingen Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr
Here are a couple more examples of the hype that must have surrounded Sheffield steel at the time ........ not that it was necessarily hype, it is some fine steel .....
A minty Carbo Magnetic with Kayser Ellison Steel on the reverse tang and Made In Germany on the mark side.
Attachment 158157Attachment 158158
A Puma also marked as Kayser Ellison steel
Attachment 158159
A Mulcato with the 'Englischer Stahl' Solingen stamping ........ very cool. :)
Attachment 158160
One more, a TI with the 'Sheffield' mark on the blade and Made in France on the tang .......
Attachment 158176
Found another example originally posted here by Hoglahoo ...... here are the photos from that post ;
Attachment 158985Attachment 158986
Sheffield used iron ore to make steel that originated not only in the UK, but from places as far away as Russia, Spain and Sweden at various times. I remember reading one account of an iron and steel man whose father run ships in from Russia laden with iron ore when he was a child, but changing to Sweden as he got older. It seems that once most suitable local iron ores were used up and became dearer, and others fell out of use due to the economic climate and waging wars, that Swedish ore was retained above all others. Indeed, it was the high purity of Swedish iron ore that led to it being so popular, and why Henry Bessemer's process for creating cheap steel failed at first - he used Swedish ore which was too pure for the process to work. Robert Mushet, son of iron master David Mushet, sorted this out for him, though he received scant mention and no reward until near the end of his life.
Sheffield steel became highly desirable and was exported as ingots to be used by razor makers in France and Germany. One often sees 'Made from Finest Sheffield Silver Steel' on the tang of french and german razors. One particular Swedish steel converting and specialist steel alloy company - Kayser, Ellison & Co - often had their whole name on the tangs of german made razors.
One english company - Osborne, Garrett & Co, makers of the famous Kropp and not so well known Ogee, Osgar, Carrera and Elmo, had their razors made in Sheffield but hollow ground in Germany, sometimes with 'Made in England, Ground in Germany', 'Hollow Ground in Germany' and 'Made in England, Ground in Hamburg' on the tang. At other times the same company had 'Made & Ground in Sheffield, England' on the tang, so market forces, lack of goodwill towards germany after the war, etc, must have come into play at various times. Eventually a razor maker with his own company - Charlie Myers - took over the making and grinding of the Kropp Manufacturing Co as well as supplying razors under his own company name of C Myers & Son, all run from his factory in Atholl Road. Kropp razors never had and German or Hamburg markings on them after that (from the 1950s onwards).
Attachment 159005 Attachment 159006
Attachment 159007 Attachment 159008
Attachment 159009 Attachment 159010
Of course, 'Forged & Hollow Ground in Germany' on the tang would mean a german razor made for the english speaking market and often sold under a local dealers name rather than the actual makers.
Regards,
Neil
