Why does this steel feel different.

I have a sheffield razor from 1890-1900. It is 5/8 or 11/16 and the steel feels much different than any other razor I have. Even other sheffields that I have had. It feels heavy or substantial. It is very hard to explain and I have tried researching here and on the web but haven't found much. Other razors feel kind of tinny compared to this one and I haven't a clue as to why. It kind of feels like tool steel whereas every other one I have feels almost cheap in comparison (although they are not). Maybe this is a cheap one and that is the difference? I know many people on here have a range of experience with older blades and was just wondering if you have come across this before or if some may have a guess.

Edit: it is a hollow ground blade.

It's probably all in our heads but I know what you are talking about. I have an old Jackson (Knife and Shear) that isn't in the best shape. But the steel is SO nice, feels very different, and hones up so easily and takes such a great edge. Ive tried to find another Jackson in better shape because I was so impressed but I have not been able to locate one. The steel of my Eiko is similar and performs the same way. I suspect it's more to do with the tempering than the composition. Whatever it is, or isn't, I know what you're saying. I've made similar remarks.

Yes, know exactly what you mean/feel, started a thread back about vintage steel vs new production steel, and as rightly so, it all comes down to how each of us responds to any given razor. While I may have one that shaves superbly, that same one could feel horrible for you, so once again it seems to come down to personal preference.

For me, I decided that I prefer the feel of the Sheffield steel, the only thing comparable for me, would be a Filarmonica, they both feel so smooth to shave with, yet there are subtle differences. If someone said they preferred a Filly shave to a Sheffield shave, I'd completely understand where they're coming from.

At least, this is what works for me...

Yeah. I don't know that this one shaves any better (I believe it does but probably in my head only) but it definitely feels different even when you pick it up. My wife noticed the difference too! Just from holding it. Like I said, my other sheffields don't even feel like this. Urggh. Maybe it is all in my head but it's been driving me nuts!! Lol. Maybe it is the tempering or maybe it has more or less carbon or maybe it's really cheap steel that rusts right away. I'm not sure.

Thanks though! I am glad to hear I am not alone here. I do think it takes and holds a superior edge but THAT I KNOW is purely subjective.

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Originally Posted by Steel

Yeah. I don't know that this one shaves any better (I believe it does but probably in my head only) but it definitely feels different even when you pick it up. My wife noticed the difference too! Just from holding it. Like I said, my other sheffields don't even feel like this. Urggh. Maybe it is all in my head but it's been driving me nuts!! Lol. Maybe it is the tempering or maybe it has more or less carbon or maybe it's really cheap steel that rusts right away. I'm not sure.

Thanks though! I am glad to hear I am not alone here. I do think it takes and holds a superior edge but THAT I KNOW is purely subjective.

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Search out the old vs new production steel thread...there were a couple of interesting angles on it...can't remember them all, but one I liked was that since the blades were 100 - 150 years old, they had to be excellent blades or they'd have been turned into buttons or something like that!!! haha

Another was the steel has aged for all this time, different manufacturing, but 90% was that it is simply personal preference.

But, having said that, I picked up this TI #69 frameback from the Classifieds here, it was pretty cheap so I figured why not. Still to this day, this blade freaks me out, every shave I've had with it is just levels above most of the razors I have, it's super smooth, handles perfectly, and I get the maximum close shave and comfort it seems with the least effort...is it the steel, or does that blade simply mind-meld with me?

Guess it's one of the mystic things about using vintage straights...:shrug:

It is probably a difference in the alloy. My guess would be more or less iron as well as the balance of the blade.

You can't feel the steel in your hand because the differences in steel density are beyond what you can detect.

What you can notice is the distribution of the steel, i.e. the razor geometry.

To start you can simply weigh your razors with your kitchen scales, when you find several that weigh the same you can look at the differences in the shape. The first thing is to find where is the center of mass when you open the razor - that is the next thing your hand will detect.

It depends how quantitative you want to get - some years ago a well known knifemaker picked a virtual fight with me because while he is far better than me at grinding steel, I am far better than him understanding the principles and quantifying things, so I rejected his view of 'a big impervious mystery'.

If you do these things you can figure out what is the razor geometry that you like so much presumably to look for more such razors.

Hmmm. Very interesting and I will indeed weigh some and hopefully that leads me to a finding. The other thing I notice is that when I flick or snap the blade with my fingernail it has a thud sound compared to when I flick or snap the others they kind of ring like tin would. It is like the difference between striking an iron pan and a tin can. Maybe not quite that pronounced but very noticeable.

Well anyways, I am trying to explain this and maybe I'm crazy (never rule that out) and I will try to weigh them and also check the balance points.

Please do and post what you find.

The sound is also a result primarily of the geometry, the specific alloy doesn't make much difference in the speed of sound in it, although the human ear is extremely sensitive and I suspect a musician can pick out the difference in the sound between two blades with the exact same geometry but different steel alloy.

Ok so last night before I went to bed I went to weigh my razors and noticed the one in question is much heavier but it also has ebony scales but all this is side the point. The pint being it led me to look at the difference in the blade geometry and there it was. With my sheffield signal next to my dovo (new) it was apparent that the Sheffield was much larger in the shank/tang. The tail or tang is almost twice that of the dovo. I am pretty sure this is why this blade feels so much more substantial and solid. In fact the blade measures 11/16 so it may have originally been a 6/8 plus with a double stabilizer I think this all points to the difference in feel. A much heavier blade with more steel. Now that I know I am not nuts I can safely say that this is my favorite blade because it is meatier and more substantial and stable.

A straight razor is basically an instrument used for shaving requiring fine motor skills to operate and manipulate. Having said that, any changes from razor to razor be it the size, configuration, grind, shape, scales can all make big differences in the way the thing performs and I think in many of these cases it is more the way these qualities cause us to use them. Subtle things can make big differences in the end.

I have enough razors of different types to have seen this over time. I have just one razor that I feel is truly different in the way it feels and performs (and it's a very basic simple looking razor) and that's my TI Damascus. For a 5/8s hollow grind if you were blindfolded you would have a very hard time figuring out what it was sliding down your face.

A simple opinion from somebody that works with steel on a dayly bases:
the more carbon a razor has in its composition the harder it gets to hone it,because carbon add durity.
The tempering has an enourmous part to play because in relation to the temperature interval steel is tempered the final hardness (Hrc) will be high or medium, thus the harder or easyer it is to hone.
We have to bear in mind that older razor making techniques involved more human and manual labor than the new automated production lines, so it is normal to feel that old razors are giving a better shave mainly because there was a lot of experimentation with the alloys and tempering back in those days(the exact formula for Filarmonica steel is not known even today).
Ps:
Sorry for my bad english.

Because of geometry most of the weight of a razor is located in the shank and the spine, so that's where the differences really are.

Massive shanks relative to the blade are not uncommon in sheffield razors because many of them are a regrind of a much larger original razor.

But there are also changes in the manufacturing even in the same models. For example some older bokers are much heavier than the later version of the same razor and if you compare them side by side you can see how the earlier one has more steel which is most notable in the shank.

Another pair to compare is the henckels friodurs - the stuff that came out in the last few years has noticeably less steel compared to the vintage ones. I don't remember the weight numbers off the top of my head, but I have posted pictures of the two side-by-side and you can see even in the blade profile how the spine of the older razor is thicker.

Finally, if you look at the razors marked 'for heavy beards' the general trend is that they are heavier with bigger spines i.e. more mass.