Mirror vs. patina

I have some razors that have a mirror finish. They certainly look good. But I have a couple of older blades that don't have a mirror finish, just the patina that comes with age (and I don't mean discoloration or stains). Call it a dull finish, if you will.

I've thought about buffing them up to a mirror finish but I kind of like the look of aging. I know that with antique furniture the worst thing you can do is refinish it if you care about value. I'm not sure razor would be considered similarly. But is it really necessary to buff every razor up to a mirror finish? I'm not so sure.

Some things to understand

True Mirror finish = Rare
True Patina = Very rare
Bright shiny steel = Good
True Patina = Good
Rust of any type color or degree = Bad

Your razor your face your decision :)

Cannot disagree with any of that. Nice job with descriptions. But I am talking about true patina. I have a recently acquired razor that has no rust, no pitting, so discoloration, just a kind of dull finish. It is a Crown Razor Co. and I know they stopped producing razors about 1930. It is just a dull colored metal, which I see as patina. So I've considered shining it up to a mirror finish. But I kind of like the patina.

Let it stay for awhile. No hurry, but once it's gone it will take another 100 years to put it back.

If you have a really deep dark patina, I bet it has some black rust hiding under there. A nice mellow light patina that you can easily see through is likely not hiding much. I have an old W&B that I cleaned up. It didn't have enough thickness and depth of etch to get to a gloss or near gloss finish, and the stabilizers have been taken down for some reason. It is not a candidate for taking very far. I think I got most of the black rust and all the red rust off, leaving a bit of pitting. I have used that blade as my experimental piece to recreating patina. I have to say it is not anywhere as nice as natural patina, it is however a little intriguing. Here is when it was mocked up http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...-patina-2.html
One of those things that has some appeal to some. In this case I'm quite happy with it.

Patina on steel is just another name for oxidation. But it's uniform and thin and once formed any further oxidation is slowed down dramatically. With rust it's the opposite, it's localized and deep and often tends to catalyze further degradation of the metal.

Fresh steel, of course (true mirror finish if you will) is highly reactive. Ask those who restore razors and they'll tell you that for the first week or so you've got to be extra careful with your razor because it can start rusting much easier. After a while the top layer of the steel has reacted with the environment (most prominent of those reaction is bounding oxygen, i.e. oxidizing, tarnish, patina... however you want to call it) and the further degradation is slowed down. Initially it may look pretty close to freshly polished blade, but it isn't (as you can verify with the appropriate scientific equipment) and with time even the slow process builds thick enough layer that the reflection of light is significantly altered and you see that as a drastically different look.

But there is no mystery to it.

The same thing happens to the edge, and that your face can tell much sooner than your eyes - it's the dulling of the razor. Stropping it well on a daily basis helps to keep the damage from progressing too fast, but normally after 20-50 shaves the average person tends to want that edge refreshed, i.e. recreated because it doesn't function well enough.


If you like the look there is no reason to polish it, but if your edge doesn't cut hair it has to meet the hones and enough steel removed to create a new edge that would cut.

Here is an example of what I mean in my post above..

http://straightrazorpalace.com/show-...ml#post1327178

See how this is being called "Patina"

It isn't, that is Black Rust and Spider rust with perhaps a tiny bit of the Gray inbetween the rust being Patina :(

I will try and find you a pic of a razor with true Patina, the real difference is that Patina is formed by years of loving care and use, not years of neglect...

ps: If you are ever in doubt between Patina and Rust simply look at the steel under well lit magnification the difference is quite obvious then..

Here are pics of the razor I am talking about. This one was actually a freebie that was sent when I bought a scuttle on ebay. I has no rust or pitting. It just doesn't have a mirror shine. I did polish the tang but I left the blade untouched.
Attachment 163746
Attachment 163747

True patina.

Attachment 163748

there are a few dark spots but it is mostly an even gray, deepening in the corners.


Attachment 163751

@Hart: Nice blade. ;)

Has the blade been sanded? It might just be my monitor, but it looks to have plenty of odd marks from sanding all over it, plus what looks like a fair bit of pitting.

Mind you, I am sensitive to pitting - even so-called 'water marks' are a form of light pitting to me, as evidenced by the shallow depression revealed when looking at them under the right lighting conditions.

If there are light scratching/sanding marks on the blade, any patina that took years to build up disappeared at the time those marks were made.

Regards,
Neil

Not sanded by me. And the photo could be better. But I take your meaning.

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Originally Posted by Hart

True patina.

Attachment 163748

there are a few dark spots but it is mostly an even gray, deepening in the corners.


Attachment 163751

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Yep, patina is beautiful:

Attachment 163828

Attachment 163829

Providing it is just patina and no rust, i like the effect that 8k-12k micromesh gives - it leaves all the patina but also makes the blade shiny.

I guess I have razors that have rust on them, according to Glen's description, but they look good, shave well, and it's not like they're about to disintegrate into a crumbled mess. I'm thinking patina (oxidisation) and rust (oxidisation) are essentially the same thing?

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I'm thinking patina (oxidisation) and rust (oxidisation) are essentially the same thing?

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There are different forms of iron oxide so it is similar rather than the 'same' thing.

I like patina, as long as no major pits or rust is in it. This one got just a once-over with Maas. Perfect, IMO

Attachment 163850

Rust blueing on a gun is a form of oxidation , but it also holds oil and protects the metal under it, after rust blueing you don't see the true finish till oil is added and the deep blue black pops .so I guess patina I protects the metal like rust blue or the green stuff on copper statues

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I guess I have razors that have rust on them, according to Glen's description, but they look good, shave well, and it's not like they're about to disintegrate into a crumbled mess. I'm thinking patina (oxidisation) and rust (oxidisation) are essentially the same thing?

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I agree that the black rust on some razors can look good and is added character in some cases. I've had one razor the rust pattern on which I tried to find a wood grain to complement but ended up cleaning it off. It's great to have something that looks the part of an "antique" that you can use as if it were new.
There is something very special when you are lucky enough to get one with that perfect look of a grey wash though.

I like patina on my razors. Buying a used razor that has been polished to a high mirror finish can be a great shaver & great looking razor. It can also have been overheated in the process of obtaining the finish that the blade has changed it's temper.
For me its all about the edge, size and grind type. I am happy to leave the history of the past users on the razor.

I guess I'm the opposite side of this equation, I prefer my blades very clean, for here, it's called a mirror finish, for me, it's clean, very clean...I'm don't like the idea of shaving with years of anything coated on. Just not my taste or preference, to each their own I guess. The mirror finish that's put on my blades when I send them out is all done by hand. I always enjoy seeing the water bead off the blade it's been polished so beautifully.

+1 with Phrank. But I'm also good with Sharptonn's opinion as well. That much is fine. But anything more and I'll have some metal polish out getting that cleaned off. Antiques and rare coins should have patina, I guess, but not my razor.

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

+1 with Phrank. But I'm also good with Sharptonn's opinion as well. That much is fine. But anything more and I'll have some metal polish out getting that cleaned off. Antiques and rare coins should have patina, I guess, but not my razor.

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Yea, with you...I don't normally consider myself squeamish in any way, but shaving with a hundred years of potential gunk coated on the blade...nope...sorry, ain't gonna do it! :nono:

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Originally Posted by Phrank

Yea, with you...I don't normally consider myself squeamish in any way, but shaving with a hundred years of potential gunk coated on the blade...nope...sorry, ain't gonna do it! :nono:

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I hear you but Barbicide is your best friend if potential gunk is what you are worried about. I do that for any new/used razor coming into my rotation for the first time. Mirror or patina it does not matter I just do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Phrank

Yea, with you...I don't normally consider myself squeamish in any way, but shaving with a hundred years of potential gunk coated on the blade...nope...sorry, ain't gonna do it! :nono:

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LOL, you make it sound as if they are dripping with goo. :rofl2: I do like your razor porn though, you have some of the most beautiful blades.

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Originally Posted by Hart

LOL, you make it sound as if they are dripping with goo. :rofl2: I do like your razor porn though, you have some of the most beautiful blades.

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Thank-you! I take my time to find the right blades, had a few stinkers that you don't see, but all the credit goes to Valery at The Gentleman's Den, I blame him, he does everything by hand, and really takes a blade to the next level.

And yes, when I get a new blade, it gets a nice cleaning / polishing with Maas first, then a bath in Barbicide for 20 minutes, before it gets sent to Valery, from which I inform him via email or phone - no gunk please! haha

I guess I can't imagine someone walking into purchase a razor some 100+ years ago and saying, "This razor is far to shiny, is there anything you can about it?" :shrug:

Different strokes for different folks...that's what makes it fun!

I don't like a grimy blade by any means but in the same respect I don't really like the mirror brand new look on an old blade either. If its a blade I plan to sell I will get it all off but maybe a tiny speck or two in the the top of the hollow and some here and there on the tang. When I restore my blades for my own personal shaving collection I like an almost mirror finish like almost kind of a haze to the blade. I can see myself but not use it to pick stuff out of my teeth type of look. I guess I'm just an odd ball but its my personal preference its like I get a bit of both I know its clean but the haze reminds me that its been around for a while.