Timor Blue Steel 150 question

Greetings SRP! I came across a Timor Razor that says "Blue Steel 150", relatively affordable, too (knifecenter). But I am questioning what exactly Timor (G and F) Blue Steel 150 is. They say it is carbon steel. If that is the case....I am wondering if it is actually Hitachi Blue Steel (#1 or #2....doubtfully Super Blue). I understand what "blueing" is, having done a few guns myself....and this razor does have "blueing" on it....what looks like the tang....maybe spine. The blade hollows are not blued....at least doesn't look like it.

So my question again being.....are they advertising the steel is Hitachi Blue steel (which is a carbon steel non stainless)....or are they advertising the fact that some of the razor has been "blued" for slight....very slight...corrosion protection (why wouldn't they blue the hollow grinds)? It's not like Germany does not have Hitachi steels, white and blue. They certainly do. You can by Hitachi steels from Germany (Dictum).

If anyone can clarify this for me.....I would MUCH appreciate it! Thanks so much.

Vintage Timor's are a fantastic blades - the new one's, I wouldn't bother.

I somehow ended up with one...I came to know it as a rather good looking, "razor shaped object"...stay away from them.

You're best bet, having just had a look at the Classified section here on SRP, would be to have a look there, and pick out a razor from a member that will be shipped to you, "shave ready".

edited to add: and if you're new to straight shaving, if you check out the Classifieds, at the top you can order a DVD from the founder here, Lynn Abrams, it covers all you need to know about straight shaving, including your first straight shave, stropping etc...

Welcome to SRP. It's not a hitachi steel, just some carbon steel.
You're better off staying away from the current G&F production.

Yeah, better off staying away from modern G&Fs.

The old blue-steel razors simply had blued tangs - that is, tangs which had been 'blued' like some guns. Then there was a modern production run of these that produced a few decent, but mostly poor, examples, followed bu several other poor modern production runs.

The vintage examples are very decent razors and the firm now is nothing like the old one - a great shame. They were among one of the firms still to employ the old methods of walrus hide hand glazing wheels and hand sharpening which makes the new firm even more of a travesty of the old one.

Regards,
Neil

You guys answered my question. Thanks so much! It isn't Hitachi Blue steel.

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Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver

While this razor is peobably just carbon steel which has been blued there are vintage razors which were made with a more highly alloyed steel known as blue steel and most often in vintage razors with the moniker that is what it refers too. This is especially true of some german razors as at one time this was a selling point of not only razors but german tools as well.

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And here's me thinking it was a 1930s John Wayne film... :gaah:

Seriously, though, it is nearly universal to call blued steel, blued for corrosion resistance, 'blue steel' but the term is sometimes used to signify a more highly tempered steel, or a harder steel, if you like.

I don't think the term has anything to do with alloying agents though. It just refers, slightly obliquely, to heat treatment.

There were a lot of razors bearing the legend 'blue steel' at one time it is true, usually imported from Germany and sold in the USA, as well as others called 'blue diamond' and 'diamond steel', the diamond part strengthening the significance of tempering at a higher temperature for a harder steel.

Kinfolks made a 'Blue Steel Special' that is supposed to be a particularly good shaver.

Historically Henckels had a blue steel model. In recent times Hart Steel made a 'Blue Steel' razor which boasted (if that is the correct word for something so incredibly hard) a Rockwell Hardness of 63, harder than even the Thiers Issard Carbonsong line. Obviously the 'blue steel' refers to the temper, and the blade even looks dark grey in the pics I have seen of it (never having had my sweaty mitts on the real thing), and I am not sure I would even want to. Harts - at least the many that have been sent to me for honing - are hard to deal with (one straight from the factory had the remnants of three different bevels set at different angle on it, and it still was not shave worthy) and the carbonsong TIs are usually a pain to hone, so I guess I would pass on a Blue Steel Hart - but I would like to own one just for kicks!

Of course, some people see the colour blue in steel or shades of it - can't say that I have myself unless the sky is reflecting on it a bit or under unnatural lighting conditions, but people see the fanciest things in the otherwise banal - makes life more interesting, I suppose.

I used to work on the roads and lay kerbs made from a natural stone known as blue lias. Totally unsuitable for a kerb - it flakes like mad and a few decades of hard winters reduce it to a mess, but the point is I could see yellows, oranges, rusty earth colours, greys, etc in it but never blue. Why it was ever called blue lias eludes me. In much the same way as some otherwise non-green natural stones are referred to as greenstone, I expect - another mystery.

At least haeting steel can move the colour of the hot steel into this colour zone, but any oxide formation imparted during tempering is lost after buffing.

Something to ponder on, at any rate.

Regards,
Neil

Good summary Neil.

In Japan, the "color" is related to the paper it comes wrapped in. The grades include blue, white, yellow and green. The steel when exposed is silver/gray like all clean steels.

In the US, there a wide variety of colors of paint and paint combinations used to mark the steels. Some of those are alleged standards but for the most part proprietary markings so the yard apes will know which type of steel to pull for an order. A good friend of mine got burnt by one of those guys because the company didn't know he was color blind.

In metallurgy, Blue Steel means that the steel was tempered to 590 degrees F.
Other common steels are indigo steel at 540 degrees, straw steel at 400 degrees, and green steel at 650 degrees.
Once quenched and polished they all "look" the same to the naked eye, but have different properties.

And here's a picture of common colors and temperatures:
Attachment 171653

Here's an old 150 BLUE STEEL.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...RTRADE0052.jpg

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...RTRADE0053.jpg

The blue colored steel is only on the tang.

BTW, it IS a great shaver. ;)

I don't know as much about razor production yet, but with wood chisels, companies would often color or paint the metal with blue for blue tempering, yellow for straw tempering, etc. Usually it was a painted band where the chisel goes into the handle. It was essentially a sales gimmick.
I wonder if razor manufacturers were doing the same thing?

Some years ago Shapton introduced an additional run of their glass stones and IIRC, they were for 'blue' steel, or maybe it was the white steel ......... but they were different than the original run. At the time I inquired as to what the difference between the blue and white was and never got a satisfactory answer. This thread certainly clears that up for me.

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Originally Posted by criswilson10

In metallurgy, Blue Steel means that the steel was tempered to 590 degrees F.
Other common steels are indigo steel at 540 degrees, straw steel at 400 degrees, and green steel at 650 degrees.
Once quenched and polished they all "look" the same to the naked eye, but have different properties.

And here's a picture of common colors and temperatures:
Attachment 171653

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To be very carefully clear...these colors are oxides that occur during the tempering cycle of heat treatment. This is not the "tempered steel" nomenclature where a tempered bar was a hardened bar. Properly phrased it should read "hardened and tempered."

A blue color, of this type of example, would be too soft to be a useful razor.

For the Timor razor, I would suggest that Blue Steel is another of the marketing labels so often bent to suit the sellers purposes.

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Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver

...Off topic one of my favorite steels used in the manufacture of razors wwas actually utilized in the making of gun barrels and that is bohlersteel. Razors made with this steel seem to take a stellar edge for me and offer a fantastic shave. As Niel pointed out, much fodder, but interesting to discuss none the less.

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Bohler-Uddeholm is a Swedish steel company, not just a type of steel. I use their raw materials for blades I make whenever possible. Their quality is exceptional.

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Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Bohler-Uddeholm is a Swedish steel company, not just a type of steel. I use their raw materials for blades I make whenever possible. Their quality is exceptional.

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I've got an old NOS Solingen with 'Bohler * Extra' stamped on the reverse tang ! :y