My Definition of a Custom Razor

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Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

When I ask an artisan to take my idea, Rough draft, and then cut him off the chain with free will to do as he wishes and what is going to work thats a custom.

Just because you gotta big block 427 Cobra Jet motor. Does not a Muscle car make. A blade that is tweeked and Scales that are fiitted into a new shape configuration and or set of materials is custom.
If not go buy a Ford focus off the line and drive happy in ignorance it is bliss for the masses.
Do you have one exactly like it? Even close?? Than its a custom. Did you get to collaborate with the builder?? Did he ask you what is most important to you and then deliver a product thats better than expected that is a custom.
If you get a tattoo out of the photo book and go with it NO. When the artist sits down and draws a design just for you and freehand lays the ink thats a custom.

See what I like from a custom build


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Do you have one just like it?
No then this is a custom. By definition something other than a production model past or present.

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According to the tight tolerances that have been handed down here as to what is custom, that razor of yours is NOT custom simply because it is a factory razor in a different set of scales. If you want it to be a true custom as per the rules being defined here, you need to sit down with an artisan and have a completely new razor designed and built from scratch for it to be considered custom. Is this what you want? Do you want your "custom" razor to be disqualified on that one distinction alone? To you it is custom, as it is in my opinion but not to those here that are demanding such rigid rules for the term custom razor. All you have there is a Ford with a new paint job.

The definition of "custom" anything today is pretty elastic. It is not the original stricter definition by any means. Different people draw the line at what is or is not "custom" at different points. That is one of the things about the English language, probably other languages too, is that it is so elastic that it can evolve and change over time. It just might be that it is a generational thing we are seeing in this thread with older generations defining it more strictly than younger generations.

Bob

I agree, the term as it is used nowadays and with razors in mind is a bit elastic.

The true meaning of the term is not. What makes it elastic here is primarily the cost. Paying enough for what you might term a semi-customised razor that runs into three hundred dollars or so or buying something truly custom, which is more like a thousand dollars or so. Or what I call 'bragging rights' because most of these razors are no better than vintage razors you would pay less than 100 dollars or so for, and some are a lot poorer in design, shape, materials and execution than even that last example.

A second, less commanding reason is what you like. For that to come into operation it does not matter whether the item is custom or not.

A third, even less commanding reason as far as razors themselves are concerned is repeating something that was once available in the past, but no longer widely available now.

I like the 2nd and 3rd reasons. I don't have much time for the 1st or the mangling of terms which causes it to be so.

Regards,
Neil

Can't let Neil have the last word here ;)

It seems to me that analogies with automobiles, guns, fishing poles, shoes, ships, ceiling wax, cabbages, etc. are not necessarily valid. Things have value to a collector for different reasons. Some things are collected merely to covet, some to use, the rest somewhere in between.

Your Les Baer Custom Centennial is not created from close collaboration between yourself and Les Baer. He doesn't machine a casting to your specifications. Conversely, A new Dodge Charger with the doors tricked out to open vertically (using this as an example because I saw one at the car wash today) is definitely not an option from the factory. So analogies to other unique collectibles are simply not valid.

As razors are concerned, I must use razor analogies to illustrate my own concept of "custom". In my opinion, do custom scales make a custom razor? No. They make it a razor with custom scales. The scales if hand made to the consumers desires whether by himself or another are custom. If the blade is a mass produced blade, and the custom scales are attached to it, it's new clothes do not make what's inside of it custom.

I have historic razors I've had to rescale and I chose to use scales of my own creation from raw materials. Custom? No. I have a Hart Steel razor produced by a single person in small batches. I didn't like the manufacturers scales so I whittled some from carbon fiber. Is this a custom razor? In my opinion, No. I have a Mastro Livi razor that I collaborated with him on about specific details of it's design. He made this razor himself from steel he forged and scales he carved out. Custom? Yes. A BrunoBlade I collaborated with Bruno regarding shape and grind, then finished and made scales for myself. Custom? Definitely. How about my Mastro Livi New Grind? As most of you know, these are razors made from old, good quality blanks forged probably in the '40's by a historical manufacturer then ground, finished and sold with scales made by ML. The line blurs a bit here, but nonetheless, I have come to a conclusion: Not custom.

So, in a nutshell, my opinion (which you will kindly feel free to disregard :P) seems to be that a custom razor is about the uniqueness of the blade in combination with the number of people and machines that had a role in it's manufacture from raw steel to finished razor.

Confused? Yeah, me too a little...

Ok,
Here is Ye Old English precursor of "custom" from a dictionary: The first is the common usage, the second is our special case.
custom (n.) Look up custom at Dictionary.com
c.1200, "habitual practice," from Old French costume "custom, habit, practice; clothes, dress" (12c., Modern French coutume), from Vulgar Latin *consuetumen, from Latin consuetudinem (nominative consuetudo) "habit, usage, way, practice, tradition, familiarity," from consuetus, past participle of consuescere "accustom," from com-, intensive prefix (see com-), + suescere "become used to, accustom oneself," related to sui, genitive of suus "oneself," from PIE *swe- "oneself" (see idiom). Replaced Old English þeaw. Sense of a "regular" toll or tax on goods is early 14c. The native word here is toll.

custom (adj.)
"made to measure or order," c.1830, from custom (n.).

And as I recall, the word Custom used in the 19th century became the the word customer in common usage.
~Richard

So going back to my Mastro Livi analogy - if I go along to his workshop and specify a 6/8" damascus, full hollow with french point and mommoth scales and watch in awe as he pounds the metal - that makes it a custom. However, if after writing down my requirements, he takes me into his retail area and says here's one I already made (in that exact specification) it cannot be a custom by definition - because it was not custom made for me.

I think that just about ties things up nicely.

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Originally Posted by UKRob

So going back to my Mastro Livi analogy - if I go along to his workshop and specify a 6/8" damascus, full hollow with french point and mommoth scales and watch in awe as he pounds the metal - that makes it a custom. However, if after writing down my requirements, he takes me into his retail area and says here's one I already made (in that exact specification) it cannot be a custom by definition - because it was not custom made for me.

I think that just about ties things up nicely.

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Depends on the 'mommoth', Rob... Is it a giant moth (mother of a moth, aka mom-moth)...?

Only joking! :) Good point, really - and correct too, in my estimation. How could something already made be made with you in mind? If there was nothing else like it, it would be a custom, yet not customised for you, the customer.

Mike: I don't give a fig about how the term is used in relation to other disciplines. all I know is what the word means, and what it does not mean. with Geezers post in mind - QED.

Regards,
Neil

So sometimes a reduction to the absurd helps clarify things, my apologies if you own one of these, I'd like to see it please :p.

So, hypothetically, if you specify a set of gold scales encrusted with diamonds and rubies in an intricate pattern, and then commission a world class blade maker to hand forge a Damascus blade with tiny insets for a matching diamond and ruby -- we probably all agree you have a custom razor.

The next person to see it is absolutely enthralled with the beauty and mind boggling craftsmanship. This is a razor made for a king.

The problem is if you sell to this person, the razor is no longer custom when you sell it, because the new customer did not specify anything to do with this exquisite work of art?

Curious,

Ed

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Originally Posted by EdHutton

So sometimes a reduction to the absurd helps clarify things, my apologies if you own one of these, I'd like to see it please :p.

So, hypothetically, if you specify a set of gold scales encrusted with diamonds and rubies in an intricate pattern, and then commission a world class blade maker to hand forge a Damascus blade with tiny insets for a matching diamond and ruby -- we probably all agree you have a custom razor.

The next person to see it is absolutely enthralled with the beauty and mind boggling craftsmanship. This is a razor made for a king.

The problem is if you sell to this person, the razor is no longer custom when you sell it, because the new customer did not specify anything to do with this exquisite work of art?

Curious,

Ed

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Nah - obviously you would tell people that it was custom made by so-and-so for thingummy-bob.

Easy.

It would be a POS razor to use because the scales would be too heavy.

Not so easy.

Next...

Neil,

I think it is custom too. I think the means of production, volume, and customer specification determine if it is custom. Since it is my fantasy, if I win the lottery, we can work on the design. I'm sure we can find some artist to solve the weight and balance with clever casting.

This has been a fun thread to read.

Thanks,

Ed