Stubtail Info Please

Hi! I've been lurking for a while and will make a full introduction in the appropriate forum when I get home later.
But here's a quick query:

This straight arrived yesterday. It needs a bit of tlc, but it's very nice indeed.
A bit more developed than the late 18th century stubtails I've seen, but a lot less developed than my mid-19th century straights.

Quarter hollow, nice swayback, horn scales and only marked INGRAM on the tang, no city.

Any suggestions for a date guys? Or other comments?
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...805_164453.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...805_164540.jpg

There is a possibility that your razor was produced for the same company as Ingram's Shaving Cream.

I have seen various models of Ingram razor on the net, some with just 'Ingram' on the tang like yours, others, in particular two 'Ingram's Special' razors had 'The Canadian sales Co. 236 Bloor St. West Toronto, Ontario' on the tang.

Attachment 175260

Attachment 175261

Attachment 175262

Ingrams, or to give it it's correct name of The Frederick F. Ingram Co, was established in Detroit in 1885 but also had branches in Milwaukee and Ontario, hence the Canadian Sales Co. link. The company was bought by Bristol-Myers as detailed in the Wall Street Journal of the 19th of September 1928, the acquisition being effected by 1929. Bristol-Myers was also an american corporation, founded in 1887 in Clinton, New York, though many regard it as an english company, especially as the Ingrams cream available in the UK says 'since 1932' on the container. The company, incidentally is now Bristol-Myers Squibb since a merger with E A Squibb & Sons of New York in 1989.

Attachment 175263

Your razor is not what I would term a 'stub tail' to be honest.

Regards,
Neil

It might possibly be considered an overly developed stub tail. I agree with previous poster that it is an Ingram. Since there is not anything anywhere about Ingram razors it might be the only one, a prototype if you will, perhaps done during the stub tail era and shocked everyone who saw it causing it to quickly fall into oblivion.
Welcome to the forum.

Thanks guys! I'm pretty sure this is a Sheffield blade and so I'm guessing 1820's or so with that "semi-stubtail" and curved scales.
What do you call a stub that's developed a bit?

Anyway I can't wait to hone it up...

It is not a stub tail and it does not date as far back as the 1820s.

Regards,
Neil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

It is not a stub tail and it does not date as far back as the 1820s.

Regards,
Neil

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Ok! Could you please explain why.
I would find that very useful for my future razor dating.

Have a look at the stubtail shavers sub group, paying particular attention to the genuine early 1800s stubtails, the shape of the tail and the shape of the blade along with the scales and the method of pinning them.

In short, teach yourself what a typical early 1800s razor looks like, and you will see what I mean.

You have to invest the effort yourself, being told why by me will not help you much...

Regards,
Neil

Fair enough Neil!
But perhaps you could give me a few pointers...
...The stamped typeface of the name, the omission of any city of manufacture, the swayback, point, grind and thick horn scales all tell me that this is from the first half of the 19th century.
Also the tail is much less developed than my 1850s and 1860s Sheffields (whose dates are pretty certain since the works from which they came only existed in those decades).

I too am a great believer in the "Teach a man to fish..." ethos but would nonetheless like to hear the opinions and knowledge of memebers here, since that is also a great aid to learning.

I'll introduce myself properly and have a good browse later, and will be sure to check out the "Stubtail Shavers" section!

There are several reasons as to why it is NOT a stub tail. The overall shape of the razor, shoulder grind and heal, length of the tang as well as the shape of the tail. Those are just a few of the things that I noticed off the bat.

Ok thanks! So we've established that it doesn't qualify as a stubtail.

So what date would you put on this razor, as per my original question?