Otto Fromm? Really?

Gentlemen,

Someone sent me a 5/8 Otto Fromm to hone. It is pictured below in the blackened shank next to mine, which is a sweet razor. The one sent to me showed the name stamped or etched on both sides of the blade. Those of you familiar with the Otto Fromm name know it as one of the fine Solingen razors of bygone years. It doesn't take long to put a beautiful edge on it.

I knew immediately there would be a problem honing the razor and knew why, but proceeded to hone it just for the challenge. Now, I don't consider myself a gift to the honing world, but I do all right. After all, I've had three of the greatest teachers anyone could ask for: Lynn, Randy and Sham.

After two hours, I managed to put some sort of an edge on the razor, but not much compared to that on my own Fromm.

Here is the question for you, gentlemen: What do you think the problem is with this razor?

The one you can't put a good edge on is new production by someone who bought the Otto Fromm name to use. I say new production because of the way the name is put on the razor and the new style nail head pins.

Bob

Forgot to add that the new razor does not say Germany or Solingen on it so who know where it was made and what the quality really is.

The older vintage Otto Fromm are very nice razors and also take a very nice edge. The new'er Otto Fromm are nowhere near the same quality and are mostly a hit and miss when it comes to honing as they can be very tricky. The end result is and OK shave but nothing really to get excited about.

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Originally Posted by BobH

The one you can't put a good edge on is new production by someone who bought the Otto Fromm name to use. I say new production because of the way the name is put on the razor and the new style nail head pins.

Bob

Forgot to add that the new razor does not say Germany or Solingen on it so who know where it was made and what the quality really is.

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Well Bob your absolutely right that the newer production of Fromm razor are pretty much garbage, Like Obie i have the same razor The Fromm 72 and its a wonderfull razor that takes a wicked edge.

That said the newer razor does have The Made in Germany but on the blade not on the tang and they are easilly spotted compared to the originals.
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Gentlemen,

Keep your thoughts coming.

We should get it added to the not to buy list then.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Well Bob your absolutely right that the newer production of Fromm razor are pretty much garbage, Like Obie i have the same razor The Fromm 72 and its a wonderfull razor that takes a wicked edge.

That said the newer razor does have The Made in Germany but on the blade not on the tang and they are easilly spotted compared to the originals.
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Martin,

Thank you for the photo; my photography isn't the greatest. Yes, that was the razor sent to me to hone.

Gentlemen, keep your thoughts coming. And newbies, please stay with this thread.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Well Bob your absolutely right that the newer production of Fromm razor are pretty much garbage, Like Obie i have the same razor The Fromm 72 and its a wonderfull razor that takes a wicked edge.

That said the newer razor does have The Made in Germany but on the blade not on the tang and they are easilly spotted compared to the originals.

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Sorry, there was no photo of the blade markings, I was looking at the tang for Made in German or Solingen.

Another thought is that regardless of it saying 'Made in Germany" it may merely be assembled there from parts brought in from who knows where. Lord only knows what the technical definition of "Made in" means in these days of global free trade. I mean what level of skill would it take to assemble a straight if given the two scale halves, wedge, blade and a couple of those new nail head pins with washers. I might even be able to do it. I am not saying this is what is happening but I really wonder sometimes considering what has been said in this thread of the quality control being wildly variable.

Bob

The Original razor is a 72. The new one is a 72R, R must stand for Rubbish or Reject

Gentlemen,

You are all correct. Thank you for your responses.

This thing is nowhere near the original Otto Fromm 72 in quality. When the owner sent me an e-mail to hone the razor, I asked about the brand and was told Otto Fromm. I always ask about the razor brand before agreeing to hone it, because recently there has been a run on Kriegar and some other low quality razors around town — and I have refused every time. I knew of this "fake" Fromm, if I may call it that, but forgot to ask the person to give me a description of it.

When the razor arrived, the blade was jammed into the scales so hard that it took some work to dislodge. Still, I took the challenge to hone the nasty thing. Big mistake! Yet I am glad I made the attempt to get a first hand experience in honing another low quality razor.

My first was the Gold Dollar. Good heavens, what an experience in futility. First, when I wiped the blade with a cloth, the etching on the blade smeared. Came right off, just like that. What's this? After that, it was like mud wrestling with a gorilla. Eventually I put some kind of an edge on it, but I think that would have offended even the gorilla.

The Gold Dollar is already on the forum's "no-buy" list. I will propose to the gentle moderators to have the "fake" Fromm join it on the list. Thank you, TrilliumLT, for the suggestion.

I think newbies should be especially weary of such low quality blades. I, too, think this "fake" Fromm is only assembled in Germany, if even that, but where it comes from is anybody's guess.

And there so many fine straight razors out there. Oh well . . .

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Originally Posted by TrilliumLT

The Original razor is a 72. The new one is a 72R, R must stand for Rubbish or Reject

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TrilliumLT, my dear friend, you are a poet.

This seems to be similar to the Timor, made by G&F, great vintage blades, and then the new Timor "Blue Steel" blades came out, I ended up with one as part of a deal for a Norton 4/8k, piece of garbage, another one with a blackened tang as well.

Looking at the Otto Fromm, I immediately thought of this Timor....they both strongly resemble, how do we say it en francais, garbage...

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I normally won't hone these Obie.

I just box them up and send them back.

In my experience, they do not hone well or shave well.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I normally won't hone these Obie.

I just box them up and send them back.

In my experience, they do not hone well or shave well.

Have fun.

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Right you are, my dear Lynn, as I discovered the hard way.

This is another great example of buyer beware
One of my own self assigned RAD limitations for buying is if any vintage brand str8 has the nail type pins and isn't a rescale I will pass on it,
unless it is a new Dovo or TI for the right price,
As I consider myself a novice at buying still, this theory is Based souly on this type of thread as I don't have the years of experience to back it up
And I repeatedly read that a lot of the new versions seam to be poor reproductions with grind or steel issues.

I really fail to understand the concept of manufacturing something that doesn't do what it was supposed to do. There must be literally thousands of these things lying around, glorified letter openers. Wouldn't it be better to produce a razor that actually takes a great edge, build a good reputation, and in turn increase sales and profit? There is someone down our way selling the Timor, and they are expensive. I have noticed a lot of new members buy these type of razors and kits, and then ask questions. Ask questions first would be my advice. This type of shaving is hard enough to learn, add a rubbish razor and there you have it, another non-believer, a potential member lost. Honestly, if you had produced razors like this 100 years ago, you wouldn't have lasted a month.

If I am right about them merely being assembled in Germany the company has no great investment in machinery/factory nor a highly skilled labour force. If that is the case they may be in it for a quick profit and should demand disappear they have not lost much and made a profit in the meantime. Not saying it is true just guessing at a possible explanation for Grazor.

Bob

Unfortunately the razor in question comes from Fromm's "learned experience". What I mean by that is, in other areas of the cutting tool industry Fromm and many others have discovered that a significant profit can be made selling tools that are "cheap" in every sense. Many folks today define value primarily by price tag. America's obsession/need with discount retailers and merchandise has drastically changed a few prime definitions, "quality" and "value" are among them IMO. It wasn't that long ago when most tool makers prided themselves in producing great products of good quality. However as new generations come to pass, fewer people are interested in quality (and paying for it), more buying decisions are based on price alone. Tool companies see this trend and respond by producing lower priced tools that sell very well. The Gold Dollar razor is a good example of this, so are many name brand tools that use to be of much better quality in the past than they are today. There is a remedy, public feedback and opinion. Direct contact to the tool company by the customer can often bring about positive change, though not guaranteed. Fromm makes a lot of money offering "economy priced" tools, they also still make some top of the line tools which carry a great reputation.
Thanks Obie for drawing attention to this model.

Same to be said on a thread Giessen & Forsthoff. They mirror the situation re Fromm, sold a trademark. G & F have solingen on the scales, but nothing on the blade. total falsehood
Sorry for dropping in.

Bobski

Thanks for the heads-up.

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Originally Posted by Grazor

I really fail to understand the concept of manufacturing something that doesn't do what it was supposed to do. There must be literally thousands of these things lying around, glorified letter openers. Wouldn't it be better to produce a razor that actually takes a great edge, build a good reputation, and in turn increase sales and profit? There is someone down our way selling the Timor, and they are expensive. I have noticed a lot of new members buy these type of razors and kits, and then ask questions. Ask questions first would be my advice. This type of shaving is hard enough to learn, add a rubbish razor and there you have it, another non-believer, a potential member lost. Honestly, if you had produced razors like this 100 years ago, you wouldn't have lasted a month.

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I am an observer of Australian history. Your bio picture, I'd bet is 'Chow' Hayes, notorious razor gang member and assasin/standover man in Sydney from the 30's to his death in the 70's. If I'm wrong I apologise, but I swear its him.. Cheers Bob

I've found the vintage ones to be good and the modern ones to be junk. I honed a modern one for a bloke a while ago and had to take a fair amount off the spine to get it to sit flat and take an edge. The grind was all out of proportion.

Who knows, it could very well be a Pakistani blade assembled in Germany. I have seen some other companies doing this but I can't remember who it was. It was a razor that had a Pakistani blade but was assembled in Spain.