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started a restore yesterday on a near wedge 7/8 (sorry no pix yet). the only markings on the tang are the letters V R with a crown in between the letters and "silver steel warranted" below. I'm pretty sure its an old Sheffield piece and for some reason I want to associate it with Joseph Rodgers & sons. I don't know why but maybe I read something somewhere or saw it on line together. Any way I'd appreciate any ideas on it's origins.:confused:
VR just means Victoria Reign. Silver Steel Warranted is also a generic term to describe the steel. Multiple English makers used the "XYZ - R" for different time periods.
*edit - check out this thread
In the case of VR the R is for Regina. In the case of a King the R would be for Rex.
Bob
That was a trademark of Joseph Rodgers and sons, sheffield
As usual the knowledge and helpfulness of everyone one in this sport is amazing. thanks for the enlightenment. I'll share some pix when this :tameshigiri:one is done.
Because the razor has a V R crown and "silver steel warranted" markings does not make it a Joseph Rodgers and sons razors.Quote:
Originally Posted by bouschie
Furthermore J. Rodgers and Sons cutlery always was stamped with their own trademark or corporate mark.
Attachment 178933
Crown [City mark] = Sheffield (from 1733 to present)
Anchor [city mark] = Birmingham (from 1733 to present)
love it I learnt, another new thing today
I knew the Gr, WR, VR etc was the the Monarch but didn't know the crown & anchors were for different makers locations also
The crown and anchor marks only apply to sterling silver. Nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Substance
I have a wedge with the crown and the VR. From what I understand it could be a Wade & Butcher, Joseph Rodgers & Sons or maybe 1 or 2 others but to me it's not that important. What really matters is the darn thing is a great shaver!
Yes, Victoria's crown on a razor, along with only the words Warranted and Silver Steel could be pretty much anyone.
Of course, any given Wade & Butcher could have just as easily been made by a Little M'ester working for Joseph Rodgers. The Sheffield work system was extremely ... convoluted beneath all the manufacturer's names.
Generally, when you find an item that doesn't have a manufacturer's name on it, what you've found is a razor made by a Little M'ester (or Master), who came on hard times and didn't have enough work orders to pay his workshop rent. So he made 'generic' items with the same materials, tools and workmen as the name-brand stuff and sold them on his own.
It was common for these men and their work crews to be technically employed by several different firms. That's one of the reasons why you find razors that are nearly identical to another manufacturer's razor of the same style.
The name on the tang is only really telling you who paid for that particular piece, not really who made it. Sadly, the names of the real makers are often lost to history. Old timers (in the 1870's) claimed they could tell who made a piece by looking at it.
I've collected enough razors in the same style to believe that without question.
Not too long ago I considered selling mine due to needing to thin the herd. So, as usual, I did a test shave to see how she shaved and if it needed some hone work before selling.........she is staying with me!
No. It was not. It is not even a trade mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by bouschie
That's not correct, Zak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
Hallmarks are made up of component pieces:
1. Sponsors mark (makers initials for example)
2. Purity mark, for example 925, 900, etc
3. The mark of the Assay Office that tested and confimed the metal, ie a rose for Sheffield, a lion's head for London, an anchor for Birmingham and three towers for Edinburgh. That does not mean the article was made in the city represented by the Assay Office symbol, for example Birmingham had a reputation for fine jewellery, so makers from all over would send their goods to be hallmarked there.
The crux of the matter is that hallmarking only applies to precious metal, and silver is not the only precious metal - in fact there are a few grades of siver that are hallmarked, sterling silver is only one of them.
You are forgetting gold, platinum and palladium. All of these are hallmarked.
Assay marks do not, of course, apply to base metal like steel or iron.
Regards,
Neil
:banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
And I was just in all that up to my elbows, too.
You are, of course, entirely correct!
Though the main point remains -- crowns and anchors on razor blades don't designate Birmingham vs. Sheffield
I stand corrected!Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
