How to Get that Mirrored Finish

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10-11-2014, 04:17 PM
veritas24

2 Attachment(s)

How to Get that Mirrored Finish

Hi all, I have a question about what steps are involved to accomplish:

- 100% Mirrored Finish
- Remove Minor Pitting
- Remove Minor Tarnish

I was hoping you could advise me on the right types of grit and sandpaper, any necessary compounds and what process to use. Here's the blade I am trying to work on so you can get an idea:

Attachment 181614

You can see some tarnish on the point and very light pitting on the spite. Just a note, the blade is not frowning, it's just a weird illusion from the picture.

Attachment 181615

Here you can see some more tarnish near the heel and the pitting on the spine I was talking about.

I hope you guys can help!
10-11-2014, 04:21 PM
Badgister

Not frowning, really? there looks like there is quite a lot of hone wear in the middle of the spine, as well as a chip on the edge. I would straighten up that edge and remove any chips before doing any polishing.
10-11-2014, 04:38 PM
Baxxer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badgister

Not frowning, really? there looks like there is quite a lot of hone wear in the middle of the spine, as well as a chip on the edge. I would straighten up that edge and remove any chips before doing any polishing.

Agreed.
It seems a bit strange to me that this illusion would appear in both of the pictures.
10-11-2014, 05:29 PM
RezDog

To begin with I actually bought a small lot of the worst razors ever, on purpose. I knew there was a learning curve and though that four dead razors should be able to teach me a lot. They have, I also continue to do experiments on them. The learning curve is also a lot longer than four razors, but I had to start somewhere. Looking at your razor I can't help but think the guys above have it right. Straighten the edge and set the bevel. It will show you a lot of what you have to deal with. The next step sounds a little counter productive. Dull the edge. It is for safety purposes. There is several really good threads on how to. Both in the library section and again in the workshop forum. It is a lot of information. I'm a slow typer and it would take me days to quote everything in there.
10-11-2014, 05:33 PM
veritas24

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezDog

To begin with I actually bought a small lot of the worst razors ever, on purpose. I knew there was a learning curve and though that four dead razors should be able to teach me a lot. They have, I also continue to do experiments on them. The learning curve is also a lot longer than four razors, but I had to start somewhere. Looking at your razor I can't help but think the guys above have it right. Straighten the edge and set the bevel. It will show you a lot of what you have to deal with. The next step sounds a little counter productive. Dull the edge. It is for safety purposes. There is several really good threads on how to. Both in the library section and again in the workshop forum. It is a lot of information. I'm a slow typer and it would take me days to quote everything in there.

Thanks for the great advice! I'll definitely check that out as I haven't ever heard about dulling the edge.

I don't think there's a chip on the blade and here's another picture for reference. Badgister, do you still think it's frowning from this picture?

Attachment 181616
10-11-2014, 05:38 PM
nessmuck

That's a good razor to practice on...cus it's got a lot going wrong with it...and if you mess it up ..nothing lost. You will learn grasshopper...what is a good razor and what is bad...we have all been there !!!
10-11-2014, 05:41 PM
veritas24

Quote:

Originally Posted by nessmuck

That's a good razor to practice on...cus it's got a lot going wrong with it...and if you mess it up ..nothing lost. You will learn grasshopper...what is a good razor and what is bad...we have all been there !!!

Thanks man! Can you describe some of the problems you see with it? It's hard to know what to fix when you can barely spot the problems.
10-11-2014, 05:42 PM
Razorfeld

You can check to see if there is a frown yourself. Any flat surface will do, like a barber's hone or any hone. P{lace the razor's edge perpendicular to the surface, hold it up to, or place a strong light behind it. If you can see light coming through the middle section of the blade, then you have a FROWNER. If there is light coming through at the ends of the blade, then you you have a SMILER - a good thing.
10-11-2014, 05:47 PM
mainaman

get ready to buff a lot.
100% mirror is a myth unless you have the right equipment, which I do not think is too common.
Your razor has a frown and a lot of spine wear from improper honing. The razor is hollow ground and I dount you will be able to remove the pitting completely, only because you have not enough steel to remove. I would not go all the way with it.
10-11-2014, 05:53 PM
celticcrusader

I would probably break the razor down and then salvage those lovely scales and then put out a SOS out saying you are looking for a Dubl Duck blade in good order minus the scales, I really don't think the blade is worthy of the scales.
10-11-2014, 05:56 PM
RezDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

I would probably break the razor down and then salvage those lovely scales and then put out a SOS out saying you are looking for a Dubl Duck blade in good order minus the scales, I really don't think the blade is worthy of the scales.

I think Jamie is correct about the scales for sure. They have a saving value. The blade is likely only good for learning on. It may live to shave again but the greatest value will be in what you learn trying to resurrect it. Many people kill a few blades in trying to restore, they are valuable lessons, some of the best learned lessons are in the trash bin.
10-11-2014, 06:01 PM
veritas24

1 Attachment(s)

Thanks for the input guys. I don't think I'm going to break it down, since as Rezzdog says, it's a great opportunity to learn on if it's a lousy blade anyway. I tried the light test the best I could to determine how bad the frowning may be. What are your guys' thoughts?

Attachment 181623
10-11-2014, 06:06 PM
RezDog

It is not a dramatic frown, and can be fixed. Honestly the hone wear and the pitting will be the worst of it. It will be good to work on that blade. It is a great teacher.
10-11-2014, 06:09 PM
veritas24

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezDog

It is not a dramatic frown, and can be fixed. Honestly the hone wear and the pitting will be the worst of it. It will be good to work on that blade. It is a great teacher.

Awesome, that's a relief. I really appreciate your input.

As far as fixing the frown, hone wear and pitting, are the tools necessary available at a local hardware store or will I have to order supplies online?
10-11-2014, 06:14 PM
RezDog

you really should read through that file first. The stuff you need to fix the pitting as best it can be fixed is available at the hardware store, the hone wear is not something that the average guy can fix. In order to do that you would need a proper grinder, which is typically a 2x72 belt sander. They are not cheap and come with a long learning curve. There are many things that are beyond the realm of us mere mortals.
10-11-2014, 07:31 PM
nessmuck

And don't use a dremel tool...to much can go wrong. I smoked one of my best blades with a dremel tool...and I use grinders ,sanders, cut of tools, for 40 years doing autobody work...and that dremel still bit me !!!
10-11-2014, 09:01 PM
thebigspendur

When you see true mirror finish on things like watches for instance they have heavy duty high speed polishing wheels with specialized compounds to get that effect. You can get close with the right sandpapers like the kind auto detailers use but it's a big job to do it by hand.
10-11-2014, 09:39 PM
veritas24

Ok great. I have a bench grinder I might try and find some polishing wheels for. Until then, I'll probably just stick with sand paper. Looks like I got my work cut out for me. Any suggestions on a polish?
10-11-2014, 09:56 PM
RezDog

It will take you a while but any metal polish will do. Maas and Mothers are both very common.
10-11-2014, 10:00 PM
veritas24

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezDog

It will take you a while but any metal polish will do. Maas and Mothers are both very common.

Great, thank you everyone for all your advice. :beer1:
10-12-2014, 04:20 PM
Wullie

Quote:

Originally Posted by veritas24

Ok great. I have a bench grinder I might try and find some polishing wheels for. Until then, I'll probably just stick with sand paper. Looks like I got my work cut out for me. Any suggestions on a polish?

Good luck with that.

I say this because your idea is a recipe for disaster. I've no idea if you have any experience with buffing wheels and grinders. If you do, disregard any or all of the following. If not, the possibilities for train wrecks are endless.

First issue is safety, a cloth wheel can impart a lot of its energy into whatever just got snagged by it. Whatever got snagged will most likely be removed from your hands before you know what happened, that's when the fun starts. If it catches on part of the grinder, it will most likely break. If it doesn't catch on some part of the grinder, it will most likely depart the wheel in a yet to be determined direction. If it hits something soft, like you for instance, it may not break. It might leave a nice gash or hole to let you know you messed up. It could just as likely end up hitting the floor, bench, wall, or ceiling. Gloves will help but they are clumsy. Eye protection is a must. Even a dull razor will cut the HELL out of you given a chance.

Next issue is heat. Friction from the various grits of buffing compounds creates heat. Get the blade hot enough and you now have a razor shaped object. Hollow grind razors are very thin, heat builds quick, doesn't take much to wreck the temper in search of the high shine.

All this being said, not trying to talk you out of your quest, just trying to give you a heads up for some of the myriad of issues that are associated with rebuilding/refinishing something with only one moving part. ;)

LOTS of info on this site. Do your research before you bail off head first. All the things I mentioned above have happened to me. I learned the hard way before algore invented the inter-web.

Good luck and have fun.
10-12-2014, 04:33 PM
veritas24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wullie

Good luck with that.

I say this because your idea is a recipe for disaster. I've no idea if you have any experience with buffing wheels and grinders. If you do, disregard any or all of the following. If not, the possibilities for train wrecks are endless.

First issue is safety, a cloth wheel can impart a lot of its energy into whatever just got snagged by it. Whatever got snagged will most likely be removed from your hands before you know what happened, that's when the fun starts. If it catches on part of the grinder, it will most likely break. If it doesn't catch on some part of the grinder, it will most likely depart the wheel in a yet to be determined direction. If it hits something soft, like you for instance, it may not break. It might leave a nice gash or hole to let you know you messed up. It could just as likely end up hitting the floor, bench, wall, or ceiling. Gloves will help but they are clumsy. Eye protection is a must. Even a dull razor will cut the HELL out of you given a chance.

Next issue is heat. Friction from the various grits of buffing compounds creates heat. Get the blade hot enough and you now have a razor shaped object. Hollow grind razors are very thin, heat builds quick, doesn't take much to wreck the temper in search of the high shine.

All this being said, not trying to talk you out of your quest, just trying to give you a heads up for some of the myriad of issues that are associated with rebuilding/refinishing something with only one moving part. ;)

LOTS of info on this site. Do your research before you bail off head first. All the things I mentioned above have happened to me. I learned the hard way before algore invented the inter-web.

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the advice. I have used a grinder for various small projects, but I will admit the thought of using it on a straight edge was very daunting. After watching several videos and reading more, I decided I wanted to just use sand paper. It seems like a much cheaper (I don't have any buffing wheels or compounds) and safer option.

I figure I'll try to create a sanding stick like the one on this page - Hand sanding a blade - Straight Razor Place Library.

I really appreciate your heads up as I am very inexperienced in blade restoration and need to be made aware of any and all safety concerns. Thanks!
10-12-2014, 06:54 PM
gssixgun

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...wers-here.html

That thread is stuck at the top of the Workshop forum all the time, I would HIGHLY suggest bouncing around in there

First rule of razor restore "Rush a Restore, Wreck a Razor"
10-15-2014, 11:26 AM
ToolFiendG

Quote:

Originally Posted by veritas24

Ok great. I have a bench grinder I might try and find some polishing wheels for. Until then, I'll probably just stick with sand paper. Looks like I got my work cut out for me. Any suggestions on a polish?

I may be wrong, but I have always thaught that for the mirror finish, you need to sand through to 2500 grit with the sand paper, then switch to a felt/cloth wheel , and the polish compound you would want would be Red oxide (jewellers rouge)
I am no expert but I think that is the best way and the closest a non 'professional' can get to "mirror polish"
I know I am coming to this thread a bit late, but if you are still debating how to go about it, this might be an avenue to explore
good luck, all the best
10-15-2014, 12:01 PM
ScienceGuy

It really depends exactly what you want to achieve. If you are looking to replicate original finishes, you will not be able to unless you build a setup to mimic the equipment, materials, and techniques of old Sheffield (i.e. original razors have a more-or-less undistorted mirror finish and crisp, sharp lines). 100 % of modern restorations, at least that I have seen posted, do not replicate this - the finish is usually slightly wavy or not a perfect concave along the whole blade, and/or the lines separating geometric regions of the blade are not sharp (this especially happens when buffing). To get that effect you need hard wheels, not soft / cloth wheels.
10-15-2014, 01:46 PM
ToolFiendG

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

It really depends exactly what you want to achieve. If you are looking to replicate original finishes, you will not be able to unless you build a setup to mimic the equipment, materials, and techniques of old Sheffield (i.e. original razors have a more-or-less undistorted mirror finish and crisp, sharp lines). 100 % of modern restorations, at least that I have seen posted, do not replicate this - the finish is usually slightly wavy or not a perfect concave along the whole blade, and/or the lines separating geometric regions of the blade are not sharp (this especially happens when buffing). To get that effect you need hard wheels, not soft / cloth wheels.

I do agree that to achieve a professional look is quite tricky,,, plus keeping the temper of the razor, especially a hollow ground one. You only have to watch a program like 'how its made' to see the level of equipment needed to perform such operations. For some reason, it puts me in mind of an episode where they show how aluminium darts are made,, (all the cutting/shaping is done by mashine and to keep the temper the metal is constantly bathed in oil ect while all these crazy automated cutting mashines get to work performing their individual roles like some deranged mechanical orchestra lol. Bit off subject , duno why but it just put me in mind of that
It seems the fella who started the thread has decided to go down the sandpaper route.... I dont blame him,, it is quite a daunting area to enter, this whole mirror shined metal world!
I am lucky in the sense that I personally prefere the non- mirror shine look on old razor,, well not even old, just any razor that aint brand new or NOS proper. It saves a lot of time/effort money so I guess I am lucky to have simple tastes,,, going up to 2500 on the sandpaper has always done me, in terms of how shiny I like my razors... I do have a few early razor (dead straight scales of only natural material, wedge blades, and stubby little tails) that have been cleaned to a mirror shine (before I got my hands on them) and even tho it has its appeals , and must have taken the restorer a lot of time/skill and effort,,,, I cant help but feel that the effort was not really worth it, and a few more signs of age would not be the worst thing in the world, as to the untrained eye, the razor would then look 20 years old, not 200 years old!
I guess that is another matter tho because the razor in question in this thread is a more modern one.

and yes I agree that soft wheels in the wrong hands can have some terrible and hilarious effects.... I am a carpenter so my first love would have to be chisels,,, always loved them , duno why,, but to me they are knives of creation rather then knives of destruction lol (bowie knife ect) ,, not tryna offend nobody just MHO.
Anyway ive seen many a formerly beautiful bevel edged paring chisel 100% totally destroyed by people wielding soft wheels in an attempt to clean the thing,, and in the process destroying all the lines/edges and bevels and ending up with these weird looking rounded off MONSTROSITIES , so yes agreed, go with great caution for your own safety and for the safety of the tool in question :)