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Hello Gentleman,
I've read on here a few times that Double Edge Razors are sharper than Straight Razors. is this true? I started shaving with a straight Razor because it looked like the coolest thing ever. can any of you seasoned gentleman give me a definitive answer?
p.s. I'm never going back to cartridges again :)
all I know is that every time I go away and have to use a DE instead of a SR, I cannot wait to get back home for a good shave
I don't know myself which is sharper. I would venture to say.......it depends. What kind of steel, grind, hardness of the particular razor, and probably the most important.......skill of the person honing the blade. What it boils down to though is.....closeness of shave, comfort of shave, and I think most important.......quality of shave.
I enjoy my straight razors. Even if on a particular day my shave is not BBS, or even DFS, I thoroughly enjoy my shave......then the quality I would say is high. I am happy. I feel good and life is good!
Mike
I haven't got that far, I still at the I'm/we people are cooler than everyone else stage!Quote:
Originally Posted by mglindo
but back to the orginal question. Now some of us have SR that are sharpened up to 30,000 grit. Do DE razors go up that far?
Don't know, I get equally good shaves from either a DE or a straight razor.
Bob
I think comparing the physical blade alone since the DE is machine made it is probably sharper. However put it in the razor and that all changes. You will not get as good a shave with any DE as with a straight. There are some that can come extremely close like the R41 OC but close means close.
I know if I shave with a DE I can come right back with a straight and make it smoother , but the only time a DE takes hair off after a straight is if I missed a spot ... but like most I agree I still get a good shave !!
This certainly isn't scientific, just my experience, but I get a closer, smoother shave with a SR than with any of my DEs. The basis for that statement is my beard the day after. If I shave with a DE on a rushed morning, the next day, I have really noticeable tough stubble. By contrast, if I shave with a SR, by the next day it still feels pretty smooth. I have beard growth, but it is nowhere near as visible, nor does it feel as scruffy.
I would say that generally DE blades are sharper as far as the angle of the bevel is concerned. The bevel of a properly honed straight is much more refined or polished, causing less irritation. I enjoy both, but the straight gives me a closer, longer lasting shave.
Technically, you might say that DE blades are sharper ("sharp" defined as: "having a thin cutting edge") than straight blades since DE blades are thinner.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafuzul1
But as they are thinner they also flex more - which affects the shave - and therefore it does not automatically follow that a DE razor gives a closer shave than a straight.
On the contrary, I believe that a properly honed, stropped (and used) straight razor will produce a closeness that cannot be surpassed by a DE razor.
Sharpest razor blade IMO?
Probably the Feather AC blades as they are as sharp as a DE blade but as stiff as a straight razor blade.
My opinion - but I concede that others' might be different.
B.
A DE machined razor blade is sharper but also much less forgiving. Three pass shaves with my 2011 Muhle R41 and feather blade are closer. Mainly due to the difficulty of shaving ATG under the jawline with a straight razor.
Straight razors are capable of giving an extremely smooth shave when honed properly. Shaving with STR8's also have a cool factor that can't be attained with a DE razor. I get much more self satisfaction from shaving, honing, and maintaining a S.R. compared to a DE razor.
My R101 (R41 with black handle) is my only DE razor that comes close to my straight shaves - but the results in no way surpass my straight shaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltspanky
I do admit though that the jawline problem needs an ATG touch-up pass to get me there.
Took my quite some time to figure out how to do it, but once I did the R101 had lost its pole position.
I should mention though that a straight shave takes me 15 mins longer, but with the satisfaction that I get from a close, smooth straight shave I consider that a price worth paying.
B.
No doubt about it in my opinion, a DE blade feels sharper because it is so much thinner - as has already been pointed out. I'm going against the grain here because I can get just as close a shave with DE, SE, Feather and straight razors - providing I put the same effort into preparation.
As to your question about 30k grit honing - remember that the sharpness of a blade is established at the bevel set - you could almost say that when the two sides of the bevel meet, you can't get any sharper. Subsequent honing on higher grits makes the bevels ( and therefore the edge) smoother and smoother - but is this making the edge sharper? Finally, stropping on whatever your favoured medium is, does this add to sharpness - I think so, but would not be able to demonstrate why or how, if called upon.
My conclusion therefore is that a well manufactured DE blade and a well honed/stropped straight edge are as sharp as each other - the DE blade 'feels' sharper in the shave because it is so much thinner than the straight.
thanks Gents,
I forgot to take the thinness of a DE razor into consideration. I think I got it now
Just to make it as clear as mud some research done suggests that the edge can be honed to the same or similar thickness as a DE blade. In this study he uses a Gillette DE blade. Google or search here for Verhoeven paper. Here is an excerpt from it.
"Measurements of the edge width averaged out at 0.4 microns, which was essentially the same as found for the Gillette blade"
DE = sharper, closer shave
Straight = smoother, cooler shave
I can get a BBS shave on my scalp ANY time I wish using my DE. Blades have to be sharper, imo. YMMV
My straight razor shaves are remarkably better that any DE shave I've ever gotten ... but, that's just me!
A DE will never match a straight no matter how close they are to each other. With a straight the blade is directly on the skin and you can custom adjust that blade to match your requirements. You have much less adjustability with a safety razor.
I have both. I am just learning with a SR. I can get a SR quality shave with my Merkur future DE razor. I am sarting to notice that the SR shave feels smoother and last longer. On my work days I shave with my DE in the morning and in the evening I practice with the SR.
The DE blades are probably sharper being machine made. In technicality they should shave better and smoother, but in reality The SR will be a better quality shave in the end.
I think the research supports that the width of the edge of a de and a straight can be the same. See my post above. To say people just won't admit otherwise is inaccurate. The data is there for all to read. Now, I have noticed that many many people are fine with an edge that is less than this and some prefer it but to say that people just won't admit that it can't be done, again, is inaccurate.
i have absolutely no problem admitting that you can get just as great of a shave from a DE and dare I say cartridge razor with proper technique. That statement doesn't detract from my experience with a straight. I shaved with a shavette and DE for years before coming here and loved it. Once I transitioned to a straight I have never went back to DE, shavette, or cartridge razors. That is saying something but to each their own.
I've read this thread from post one and twice now petrakos stated an obvious, and not picked up fact, about the differences between a DE and an SR. In almost all cases a shaver using a DE, or SE, will not stretch his skin to get a closer shave. Almost all SR users are constantly stretching their skin for a close shave. Try skin stretching with a DE and then compare. The differences are minor. Where the consensus falls on the side of the SR I would say it is because we enjoy the ritual and satisfaction of prepping and using a SR. It could be that deep in our primordial brain we cherish the challenge of using a sharp object on ourselves (as opposed on others or in hunting.) For me, I have dubbed the morning shave as an Act of Ritual Suicide. Through which I have daily proven that I can use a sharp object and therefore protect and feed my family.
Yes, I do skin stretching with either SRs or DEs/SEs and find very little difference in closeness or longevity of the shave. The only difference to my shave routine is using a different tool. I would say though that some DEs, usually the aggressive ones, combined with certain blades do better for me.
Bob
The original question: I would agree that, depending on the manufacturer (some are better than others), that DE blades are sharper on the first shave.
With that said, my shaves when I used to use DEs and my shaves now with straights, tend to be pretty much the same.
thank you gentleman for reviving this thread. I enjoy any and all opinions.
I like them both, I get very good shaves from my straights and my safety razors (DE, SE and injectors). I tend to use a safety more in the summer due to the heat and humidity and I can shave faster with one. I enjoy and use all my collection
Stretching skin to me is a moot point. For one, a DE or "safety" razor's guard stretches the skin tight in front of the blade. Also, if I stretch my skin with a DE I don't notice any difference which more than likely relates back to the first point. Different techniques for different tools. Apples to Oranges. I'm not saying that your DE isn't sharper than your straights but I notice no difference in MY sharpest straights vs a DE vs a shavette in practice or results.
I use both. I'm not throwing plastic away and messing up theenvironment. I prefer the straight and I get as good a shave with one as with the other. But if in a hurry, I'll go with my DE.
With a straight the razor is directly on your face so if a safety razor bested it that can mean only two things. Your straight can be sharper or your technique can be sharper.
I use the R41 with a feather blade and I can get a result very very close to a straight however it still does not best a straight.
DE razors are great and I would pick one over a cart any day, but one area the straight wins hands down.
I don't shave every day, and sometimes not for a week or more. The straight wipes it off no problem. DE and carts clog and you are forever rinsing them. End of shave the cart or DE blade is pretty much had it, for me anyway. The straight is good to go again after a taste of some leather, and can do that 50+ times in a row.
I don't know either, but I'm new to DE and hope to eventually get to where I can use a straight edge. I assume they're sharper due to you can re-sharpen the edge, with a straight razor it subjective to the construction of the blade manufacturer.
I love this question. It's a total fanboy question. It's like asking what's better, a Glock 26 or a Glock 42? on a gun forum. They do the exact same thing, the same way, differently lol. Though I can't answer the question definitively, Steel has pointed to a study that goes straight to the question. I'll take their word for it.
I don't really have a pony in the race as I switch between my DE's, my Feather AC, and my straights often enough. I'll say this anecdotally:
Unless it's the weekend when I can devote more time, my DE is closer. At least in area's. It has to be. My beard grows sideways in the hollows of my neck. This takes a steady hand with a straight to conquer. So M-F, I just live with the ok up and down strokes vs sideways strokes needed as M-F I shave in the mornings. And I'm not good in the mornings. Of course - Not a problem with my DE. Mirror or no mirror, that thing is easy to angle and takes those hollows the way an Audi takes corners.
That said, I'll swear till the day I die that my straight shaves last longer than my DE shaves. This makes no sense whatsoever other than admitting that clearly the straight shaves cut closer. It's not like the straights steel temporarily stunts growth vs a DE's steel lol! So all said and done, I would have to say that my straights cut closer... but I don't know if they are sharper. I actually don't think they are.
The DE is VERY handy when you are busy, sharper than sin, and do the job very well - but it's never as smooth, new blade, one shave or many. My straights, short of a bad hone, are always a pleasure now that I have been doing it for so long that even in the mornings, I can shave in my half baked state.
Seriously, I'm not good in the mornings - I haven't stretched many a time with both my straight and my DE in the mornings. The above still is true.
I love em all, but I think my DE's are sharper. In spite of that, I get closer with my straights. Sharp isn't everything.