And that is why such a fat, flat, spacer is needed & why the scales do not flex & why a razor will sit too deeply in the scales.
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I suppose an explanation is in order, Orville. We are talking mechanics here. Things which were learned over a few hundred years. A razor with a tang tapered toward the tail with corresponding wedge at the end will have the characteristics of a fluid mechanical change as-opened and to the shaving position. The scales are bowed out as at rest. As the razor is opened, it is quite easy. The small of the tapered tang at the bottom makes it easy to move. As the blade is moved to full open, the forces act against themselves as the taper on the tang acts against the wedge and the scales tend to bend inward, causing more tension on the pivot.
This is where you want a tight razor. In the shaving position(s). It alleviates excessive pressure where you don't need it and applies it where you do. Not an accident. Intentional as to many years of applying it. It works better, longer, IMO
As-said. Tight, straight square, and spacer works as well. No forces to take up for wear, though!
Apparently I missed the part where blade positioning in the scales mattered. Could someone explain? Don't say cell rot and rust because in a barbers shop the only time a razor would be closed is probably overnight, and these guys knew how to treat their tools. As for cell rot...not many barbers would have had a career long enough to worry about it (this is a modern concern due to age). That lands me back to aesthetics and tradition rather than maintenance of the tool or even safety.
I am just curious why the actual function of blade position while closed in scales is a point of contention.
As for spacer vs. wedge I can see that one going either way....I think we over think what went into these designs a little bit. Razors were a tool much like a hammer. Just enough attention went into most of them just to allow them to perform their function reliably according to the accepted standards of the time. The small portion of extremely high end razors, of course, were probably paid more attention to. On that point I am making some logic based assumptions, though I could certainly be very wrong.
Well half of my answer appeared as I was typing lol
It's discussions like this that are making me really like this place. You guys are hardcore. :)
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I always open all of my razors with two hands, pinching the spine with one of them, regardless of where the blade sits in the scales. I have never noticed any difficulty with my purposely extra deep sitting razors. It may be because the smallest razor that I have made is 7/8 and the spine is thick enough to be easy to grab.:shrug:
Deep sitting razors are more aesthetic to me. Several people have complimented me on this deep sitting style on other razor sites.
I own a prc kraken made around October of 14. After looking at the ops razor, I can say that the finish on mine is the same, faint grind lines on the blade and an polished , but not mirror polish along the rest . It came honed well and ready to shave.
The reasoning behind a razors design has been explained & I can't comment on other shaving sites or the preferences of individuals but what is obvious to me is that knifemakers are attempting to make razors in a way they are familiar with ie like a knife, rather than studying "traditional" design first, which is functional. Microfasteners are another example of this that drives me mad everytime I have to hone a razor with a loose pivot.
Just a general observation not criticising any one individual.
There's one more nuance to this. Without taper you have a permanent stress on the scales/pivot in any position, which means that over time they deform a little and relieve the stress a little making the scales looser than what you want. So you have to retighten them.
With the taper at the wedge and the tang and flexible bowing out scales the extra stress (which causes the increased friction and scales staying tight) only during shaving. Provided you keep your razors closed when no shaving there is no deformation/loosening. It's a pretty simple design, but more complicated and sufficiently subtle that many novice makers/restorers do not understand its functional importance and go with a simpler design which works fine in the short term while the maker is still trying to part with it and during the first impressions by the customer.
And some (even big talkers with claims and aspirations to be among the best) are so confused they have been making scales with reversed taper on the wedge.
And then sometimes you see microfasteners advertised as a 'feature' to solve the problem of retightening the scales, but I look at it as poor way to try to compensate for a flawed design.
Yet another variation of 'other than traditional' ! ;) Certainly there are stresses at rest with a (I suppose) Traditionally-scaled razor. As the bottom is pinned, the top splays out and must come in and be pinned. The 'spring' action of proper, flexible scales is becoming a lost art. Extra effort should be made to make it proper. No doubt in my mind.
I never heard of PRC until 5 minutes ago. Jeeze, they look good. I'm ordering one. No doudt about it. I'll probably go acryllic though. No fuss.
This:) I have not yet gotten the hang of peening, so I have to use microfasteners for now. I put thread lock on them after snugging them down, and have never had one come loose.
Back on the topic of this thread...I had not heard of this company until last night, but I am about to order one!
Pins are cheaper and easier to install than tiny screws ("micro fasteners"). Pins loosen over time too. Screws are easier to tighten (or loosen) and make blade removal easier for cleaning and oiling. The blade is easier to keep centered in the scales with screws. I like them.
Me too. Not sure why more manufacturers have not gone to the small allen set screws with a tiny drop of loctite to resist backing out???? Maybe we will see more of this in the future. If they use a stainless set up then rusting is not a issue. But then again it may be hard to break that traditional look and mindset. Either way I can manage. I now have a small anvil and curved ball pein hobby hammer for tightening those pins again when they come lose. My only issue is that one day you will pein them and they will have to eventually give. With screws like you stated are easily taken down for cleaning and replacing washers and wedges/spacers. It only makes sense in my book.
I'm starting a new thread in the workshop call "Hinge pin mechanics" so that we can discus this relevant subject on topic.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ml#post1510097