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Had spotted this one on the bay, and I thought about bidding on it simply because of the etch.
This etch was a trademark of the Butler "Keen" and "Art" razors. Yet hear it is, on a Cadman Bengal.
Anybody know anything about the history of this one? At what point did Cadman take over the Butler line??
Or did they just start using it because Butler was gone and nobody could complain? :thinking:
Attachment 219033
I didn't think there was any patent on etches as evidenced by so many makers using the "eagle" logo but have only seen that one on Butlers.
Interesting etch, but the point of that one got my attention even faster!
Interesting, what jumps out at me is that the "Bengall" is etched. All the "Bengall" razors i came across have a deep punched trademark?
Attachment 219087
It's definitely a Cadman? Lots of people appropriated the Bengall bit.
I'd agree with Oz on this, though I have no historical expertise or evidence to support it. I cannot imagine anyone was allowed to trademark or copyright a Shakespeare quote, or the man's image for that matter (could be wrong). If that's the case, I guess anyone could use that particular etch - it is after all about razors.
Alternatively, and the reason I asked if it was definitely Cadman (as in, it says Cadman on the other side of the tang) is that it could be that someone etched the Bengall onto a "blank" from another maker.
Interesting razor.
James.
came across an almost identical thread on another forum a while back identical razor , consensus was genuine Cadman just later manufacture with laser etching on the tang rather than stamped
I doubt they had lasers between 1700's & 1906 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazz
I believe Da Vinci had drawings for one.(laser) But guess he went with the sure thing of painting ceilings.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Years ago I had a set of razors, Sheffields, but I don't remember the brand, that had a quote from King Lear, 'Sharper than a serpent's tooth' IIRC. I've also seen other blades with Shakespeare's image etched in the belly of the blade. I don't think they paid a lot of attention to such niceties as copyrights back in that day. :)
Ahhhhh! I have figured out a bit of "trademark"
It was the word KEEN that was trade marked, and on the Butler advertising , the word Keen has quotation marks around it, and not the entire quote from Shakespeare!
But on the razors, its a paraphrasing of the quote, and not the actual lines from the play.
No doubt one of those rare drawings that Da Vinci did in ball-point pen...Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland998
I have one of those. Not sure of manufacturer but it definitely says bengall, also has the same Shakespeare quote. Nothing special about the razor but it takes a good comfortable edge.
I doubt the razor in question to be in that age groupQuote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
and no I dont belive they did have'm way back then , Im just adding from what I found on another forum , the razor in question was identical to this one etchings and all , searched but failed to find the thread it came up due regards to the razor being a fake altleast that was the thought of the original poster , again the group consensus was its later 1900's with laser etch
both razor s look to be same japan ebay seller
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...829-Fake-razor
When you look at Bengall in the OP's pic & Martin's in post 4 they are different. While Martin's pic shows an authentic Bengall, the OP's pic looks different because it appears to be acid etched, probably more recent plus it is all capitalized. I'm beginning to wonder if it is a fake like previously mentioned?
I specifically did not mention the seller because it has no bearing on this thread.
The razor is real, I have seen Cadman razors with the light acid etch instead of the hard stamping.
Could it be a counterfeit Cadman? anything is possible. But its far more likely that Cadman just used the Butler "Shakespeare" setup on one of their razors. As I said, it had the "England" etched on the back side, so its a later manufacture.
Its times like this I really miss Neil. He would have had all the facts for us. :(
My mistake . Cadman was manufacturing up to 1965 & altho the first laser was made in 1960, I still doubt there were any laser etching machines made so soon & even if there were, why would a company about to stop manufacture buy one ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazz
I love conspiracy theories but it's ludicrous to think someone would bother to make a handful of fake razors with little profit to be gained.
There could be heaps of reasons, all potentially plausible I suppose, as to why this blade is the way it is.
Fake is one, though I too wonder about what possible gain there would be to it. But then people who are prepared to fake things are not, by definition, people who you can apply the normal laws of logic to I guess.
Maybe Cadman made blanks for people? Maybe Cadman acquired a batch of pre-etched blades? Maybe Butler and Cadman got together over an ale one day after work and thought "let's have a laugh!" Maybe Cadman got a special order from a reseller wanting the Shakespeare thing on it?
Who knows? It's fun to conjecture though.
James.
Similar to my opinion on the insanity defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
If you kill someone you are insane.....
For whatever reason .
Has it not been to Australia, 'tis not a true Bengall! Amen.....
Bruce
Well, and I hate to say this as proud Australian Bengall user, I think technically you'd have to say "antipodes" or even "the Colonies" would classify it as a true Bengall.
James.
Nah! The BEST went down-under. Rest is rubbish. Besties went to AU! OY OY OY!
Lying everywhere! :roflmao
Bruce
