Hey everyone,
Just wanted to know how everyone feels about etched blades. The good, the bad, the ugly. Fire away.
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Hey everyone,
Just wanted to know how everyone feels about etched blades. The good, the bad, the ugly. Fire away.
Nice, when well done, but a potential site for the start of corrosion if the etching is not dryed fully.
I like it. I like it a lot. Really gives the blade some "pop". Like the plain ones, too, but I'm a big fan of etching. Particularly the deep etching like W&Bs and some others (and mine :D). Hate the gold wash and frosted etching...just not durable.
Regarding the gold wash...
I've seen a few older blades on ebay where the only rust or tarnish on the blade has been ON the gold wash...
MMM speaking of etching... have you (Joe) considered offering an etching service for the personalisation of blades?
What he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Chandler
for me it varies from razor to razor.
for the most part i don't like etching, but sometimes it works. I'd rather keep it simple with a sleek looking blade
i like this particular etching:
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...940/190250.htm
as well as this:
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalo...940/190248.htm
i love the deep etching on the Celebrated W&B's
in general i like simple etching (like words) or something formal (like a coat of arms, or company logos like a lot of Crown & Sword razors) or etchings that fit into a theme
for the most part i dislike when blades have big elaborate pictures etched in them (like the ones you see with battleships or american presidents and all that jazz) infact i just finished removing the etching on a Boker (it said "World Columbian Expo" or something like that with a picture of a building...just awful!! go to CS and find the Dovo triligy themed razors...i hate those too. on the other hand i've seen some really cool elaborate ethings
not a big fan of goldwash. the one and only time i liked goldwash was the Sahara Gold Camel Rider razor that sold on eBay awhile ago. that razor had a theme going on. other than that i think it looks tacky. (and i know i posted a link to the coat of arms etching that has goldwash in the design...i don't like it there all that much but at least it's stomachable)
i have one of the Imperial Craftsman razors that i'll be cleaning and will probably strip the goldwash off (it's mostly gone already) before i sell it. I also have one of the TI Spartacus razors that i'll probably strip the goldwash off of (it's cheaply done and bothers me immensly). I have a filarmonica doble temple that will have the etching removed soon (when i bought it it was already mostly gone which was convenient as i was going to remove the etching regardless of whether it was intact or not, and it probably saved me a few bucks as others were probably turned off of the fact it had been partially removed)
i like the Dovo Mammoth etching...kind of a cool etching that fits the theme of the razor.
don't really like numbers on the shank either...wait, that's getting into stamping...
it's all about the personality of the razor. etchings can work, goldwash can work, but i prefer to keep it clean. i like what i like and it differs from razor to razor. sometimes it adds to the personality of the razor, sometimes it detracts. sometime less is more. That's probably the best way i can explain it.
I do do that, although up until now, I've just used it to replace what was already there after regrinding, or on my own blades. Words are no problem. Don't know squat about graphics, though, so I haven't done so well adding pix. Nenad helped me out with that some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer
I don't care much for etching and hate gold wash. Gold wash is just cheap gold plating that is short lived. Etching... it can be good, but is more often tacky than artistic, in my opinion. The frosty stuff is horrible and laser etching, so common among blademakers these days, is OK for production stuff, but I'm surprised so many custom knifemakers and such are using laser etching for their marks. It's easy and pretty inexpensive to farm out the etching but I think that takes something away from a quality blade. I've seen some hand etching done by masters that was absolutely incredible, though, and I may end up trying some this summer. It's just too hazardous to do indoors and it's a very tricky temperature sensivitive process but I'll admit the results are incredible with extraordinary depth and detail, so it is worth considering.
I was a little tempted to get one of the EZetch machines with stencils and stencil maker, but decided against it for aesthetic reasons.
I'm not a fan of laser etching, either. It's just surface, with no depth. I use electrochemical etching, which can go as deep than any stamp, plus you can make it very black, to really stand out. Robert's right, though, in that etching looks cheap on some blades, and really good on others. The blade (and the customer) kind of dictates what goes on a blade. Kinda like crappy filework or tang hammering, or various other embellishments...if done well can improve a blade. If done poorly, makes it look amateurish.
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Chandler
For those that do like etching, you can get one of these and etch any design you want based on any computer output you want. There's one called the etchomatic that's cheap but effective, too. "http://www.martronics-corporation.com/knifemaker.htm". The etch-o-matic startup kits are on Ebay for about $50.00. Ebay Etch-o-Matic link.
What electrochecmical stencil etching processes might lack in handcrafted artistry it makes up for by being very quick and very easy and there's a lot to be said for that.
If customers feel it's really a value-added thing for them, I'll probably get one of those slick little etch-o-matics, too, albeit with some reluctance.
I looked at the Etch O Matic. Didn't care for it. I bought an AC/DC machine from a custom knifemaker named Ron Claiborne. For the money, I think his is the best machine on the market. You need the DC for the deep etch, and the AC to deposit the black oxide into the mark. I make my own stencils., and I did buy the stencil making kit from Martronics.
As far as "lacking in handcrafted artistry", I think you're wrong on that score. I'm making my own stencils, and can do anything which I think improves the blade, which actually gives me more creative freedom. It looks much cleaner and neater than a stamp to me (I mean, if you use a stamp, you probably didn't make it yourself, and if you engrave the blade a la Maestro Livi, with a carbide tip, you certainly didn't make the carbide tip or the handpiece holding it, so where's the "artistry", other than marking the blade) Etching also has the added advantage of being better for the steel. If you know the least thing about metallurgy, you'll know stamps and whatnot cause stress in the steel, that etching avoids. It's also not nearly as easy as you would lead people to believe if done right. Not any more so than striking a stamp with a hammer a few times. Getting a good, deep, dark etch requires practice just like anything else. Most custom knifemakers (not all, but most) etch. That should tell you everything you need to know. They know, as I've come to believe, it's better for the steel, and in general, looks better. You can do so much more with it. The fact that it's relatively quick is an added bonus, both for the maker and the customer.
I've used both a stamp and etching, so I have a practical basis for my opinion. I still have my blade stamp, AAMOF, but as long as I can etch it instead, it'll probably never get used again. There are as many different opinions on this, as well as any other aspect of knifemaking, as there are people who make them. I won't denigrate one method, if the maker makes it work for them, and the way they work. The thing to keep in mind is that whatever you do has to work, has to make the customer happy, and has to make you happy. Each way probably has its advantages and disadvantages. Etching just makes sense to me (and most other makers of any note) both from a practical and artistic standpoint.
It's just about aesthetics and what appeals to one guy doesn't necessarily appeal to the next guy. The only acid etching I've ever seen that impressed me was some stuff that would take an awful lot of time to do and, appealing as it is, it's one-off kind of stuff that just wouldn't be practical for marking blades. I like stamps. You like etching. Together, I think we've got all the bases covered, huh? :)
Absolutely. As I said, a guy figures out what works for him. I used to stamp, too, so I'm not completely against it. Stamping can look good, too. What's cool, though, is that I can make a stencil that looks exactly like my stamp, and when etched, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But I can't make a stamp that looks like my stencil. I just like the flexibility it gives me, and the fact that I don't create stress risers in the steel. A lot of that's theoretical anyway, though...I've never had a blade break where I stamped it. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by PapaBull
Well, I can't comment too much on that since I haven't promoted myself to a "maker of note" yet. Maybe after another 20 years of experience or something. :) But it's all about aesthetics and what one guy loves another doesn't care much for. i.e. some like wedges and some like full hollows. I like Randall's old school way of doing things with the stamping. It's something that clearly marks their blades as something different from factory blades run through a lazer or chemical etching process. In thinking about it, it's probably the fact that this is so ubiquitous among cheap factory blades like http://i22.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/9e/6b/0edb_1_b.JPG that makes me not cherish marking my blades that way. I'm not much into playing "me too", especially with cheap factory blades. Probably just a personality flaw of mine. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Chandler
I do like hand engraving, though. :) I've been playing that it but that's another thing that takes many years to get right. I've got a lot of other things to perfect before I get around to mastering hand engraving of steel and there's only so much time in a day, week or life, so we'll see how that goes.
I've heard that criticism of stamping, too, but I don't buy it. Randall, Loveless and others wouldn't have acquired the top names and followings they've had if their blades snapped where they were stamped. Kind of moot point with razors, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Chandler
Oh, I'm certainly not a maker of note yet. But Bob Loveless is, and I guess I've been sorta infected with his way of doing things, since I taught myself knifemaking from his and Wayne Goddard's books. :D The pic of the CRKT is a very good case study, though, of why lots of etching doesn't work on everything. It's also a cheaper laser etch. Mine are all one-at-a-time, rather than using a stock logo, so I and the customer can decide what would look best on the blade. "Me too" isn't a bad thing, if you're emulating makers who do good work, and using their knowledge and experience to help you out. This seems very close to breaking out it a snarky argument, and I certainly don't want that. I think we both add something to this wonderful hobby, and I would keep it that way. As you said, everybody likes something different, and different methods work for different people. As long they work, I'm all for it. I think the point of this thread was look at the pros and cons of etching; not for we two to begin debating which we think is a superior method, nor to subtly denigrate each other's work. That's where it seems to be headed, though, so I'll opt out now.
Loveless hasn't stamped a blade since 1977, at least according to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBull
Yeah, it did seem to be heading that way and I'm glad to see it not go down that path, after all. Cheers :)
So, custommartini...you find the answer you were looking for yet?:roflmao
Hey Joe, Robert,
Yeah, I got all the answers. I've been communication with Scarface on a "secret project" and this was the last bit of info/opinion I needed. I really was just wanting people's opinions on whether, they Like or dislike etching and why, however, It as great to have two of the forgers that I respect get in on it and give some techinical for me. Thanks guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBull
The only draw back to the smaller kits is that you can only do text that you can hand do, or that you can do on a typewriter and only 1 3/4" at a time. Graphics and computer generated text, cannot be done without a stencil machine (which start at $150 forthe smallest unit plus heavy shipping). And then the Stencil material is quite costly. Not too bad, but definately not for someone looking to make one mark.
One thing that I failed to mention, outside the argument of which is a better method of marking blades...you can etch a fully hardened blade. In fact it's preferable to do so. One of the reasons I really like etching is that occasionally a blade will warp in heat treating. When you get it back, you may have to grind it a bit to get everything flat and even again. I have ground the stamping off of blades before. With etching, it's easily replaced again. As I noted before, you can duplicate a stamp with etching, and probably won't be able to detect the difference (if done properly, with an AC/DC machine...the little AC only etchomatics won't get the job done). It's really nice to be able to replace what was originally on the blade you reground. Just another thing to think about. A fully hardened blade would ruin a good stamp, and the stamping stands a good chance of cracking a fully hardened blade (particularly if you're replacing what was originally on the face of the blade). I've had factory knives stamped (my older Spyderco Endura, for one), so one or the other isn't necessarily more traditional, or denote a factory knife over a handmade one. Most factory knives are laser etched, however, which is a totally different process than electrochemical etching.