One Of These Things Is Not Like The Other

Or are they?
I recently snagged this sub $40.00 razor. Honestly, I didn't care whether I 'won' it or not. Now...well, I'm reasonably happy.
But the question I have is this:
All things being equal (as if that is possible), which do you think makes the biggest difference between razors, manufacturers, grind, century produced, size...or anything else? Or is the difference ephemeral or simply personal?
I thought of this when I had sanitized, honed and shaved with this razor yesterday. It was remarkably efficient. The pride of ownership factor is not particularly high but this is a capable razor and it made me think that there may be little difference between razors in a given category. This one would be German, 20th century, full hollow, 11/16's. How does this compare with my 19th century Greaves wedge? Well, I'd rather hold the Greaves and I cherish this razor but my face at the end of the shave was about the same...smooth.
Any thoughts along this line?

I think all those things you mention will certainly come into play especially to many experienced users and collectors, I certainly look for all those things, the big deal breaker for me is the point I only collect and use square points and the solitary Barbers notch I own, I know many would find it strange but a razor with a round point looks very odd looking to me it's purely aesthetics I also find 13/16 my sweet spot.

I feel the same about round points...little interest, but the French point, well, I have one, and I like it a lot. They seem like they would be unwieldy but I found the opposite to be true.

For me the end result is about the same with anything I use regardless of the factors mentioned. I do have my personal preferences but that makes little difference in the shave achieved. The only caveat being the edges are all equally well honed.

Bob

At this point in my purchasing I am mostly focused on blades that I want for long term residents. I am not so much about wanting to try all of them anymore, maybe because I have had so many pass through. I can say with certainty very few things, but the hand that honed the blade and the experience of the hand that shaves the face have a far greater impact on the outcome (comfort and closeness) of the shave. The blades change with grind, age and cool factor, but all of quality manufacture right from the get go, with the two important factors in place they are are very very similar in the results.

I like the idea of heirlooms. Shaving with a razor that my grandfather used would be awesome. The bummer thing Im pretty sure he pitched it in the trash as soon as he could. Maybe it's just me, but all razors are neat to me and scales are replaceable if they don't suit.

That's a neat razor for being sub $40.00, I just lost a nice Geo. Pipe razor after I went to bed, two other folks had a bit of war going on and I lost. Oh well, the guy wanted $6.80 bucks for shipping so I don't feel too bad, saved me about $30.00. I didn't bid too much because of the shipping charges. Btw, I like quarter to half hollows square points and at least a 6/8ths, the heavier blade just feels better in my hand.

Same happens with me. I "collect" beautiful MK31s on faux ivory scales just because occasionally I gathered two and think "why not to make a 7 day set? They are cheaper, more abundant, less sought by shavers and so beautiful and good shavers than the ones scaled on real ivory". I already gathered 5 of them and I love them.

HOWEVER... The two razors I like the most to shave, because they just shave better in my hands, are an obscure Caudano Torino and a recent bought Ran Tan Ka Rus with a vast smile, both 6/8 full hollows. The red devil beats the Caudano in a single aspect: Its bellied edge, that easier reaches the hollows of my neck and face. Besides that, they are tête-a-tête.

I also like my wedges, framebacks, and other razors, but definitively shave worst with wedges, razors smaller than 4/8 or bigger than 6/8.

For me, the small razor had the biggest learning curve.

I'm finding myself drawn more to "unique" or "interesting" pieces more than a certain width or grind. Things that catch my eye are nice spine work, scales, or blade profiles. Give it a few years, things will change again.

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Originally Posted by MattCB

I fond myself drawn more to "unique" or "interesting" pieces more than a certain width or grind. Things that catch my eye are nice spine work, scales, or blade profiles. Give it a few years, things will change again.

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To collect, use or both...and do you find they shave equally well?

Okay. First principles.

There is a completely unassailable difference between any two razors when one isn't honed well.

There is a completely unassailable difference between any two razors when one hasn't been stropped well, but things like grind, type of steel, quality of honing, how coarse the beard that it last shaved was, and how many times it's been used without stropping can all influence what 'stropped well' means.

After that, we get down to stuff like blade geometry, steel quality, type of grind, etc.

For me, personally? The difference in how my face responds to the razor from shave to shave is usually greater than those influences, but it's really hard to be sure because of those first two principles.

Did I really hone it right? Sometimes I get too lazy and I don't notice that the edges don't meet because it's good on one side but not the other. Did I slack on the stropping? Maybe!

After all that, with many shaves, my Heljestrands feel qualitatively different to all the Old Sheffield razors I have. As do my Le Coultre razors. But I've had early 20th century Wade & Butcher full hollows that shaved just the same.

My suspicion is simply that it takes less work to get blades that hollow to be that sharp, so they seem to take a better edge.

And then we get to the even bigger problem of intersubjectivity.

What is your best shaver might be uncomfortable for me. I've done enough honing and razor sales + swaps to know that 'the right edge' varies a good deal from person to person. I personally seem to be a bit pickier about how sharp it is than many folks, but not as picky as others.

For me it all comes back to the basic fact that the subjective experience of shaving varies from shave to shave without regard to the razor.

I've gotten, what are for me, perfect shaves with razors of every style and reasonable age (back to 1780), with 9/8 wedges and 4/8 hollows, with crucible steel, excellent modern steel, Bessemer steel, stainless steel.

I've gotten uncomfortable shaves with all the same (though I've only got one stainless steel razor, and it's never really given me any problems).

Short version

It's not possible to separate a meaningful difference in razors from the people using them.

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

It's not possible to separate a meaningful difference in razors from the people using them.

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Ok, but what about the other way around?

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Originally Posted by WW243

Ok, but what about the other way around?

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It probably is possible to figure out some meaningful differences between people using them!

My hair is really springy rather than stiff, and that means it's a lot easier for an edge to pull and be uncomfortable.

I think the people I've come across who are pickier than me have thicker hair that is also springy.

So there's the type of hair as a big factor (assuming the mythical platonic razor ideal).

But on top of that, different people clearly have very different tolerances for discomfort, and that tolerance is changed by a lot of things: caffeine, alcohol, sun exposure, time of day, blood pressure, season, how recent and extreme their exposure to Capsaicin, state of immune system, function of lymphatic glands, altitude, what they're thinking about, barometric pressure, endogenous sex hormone levels, injuries, temperature, etc.

Cutting (hehe) through all that, there are 6 razors that consistently shave super great for me:

Heljestrand MK 31, WWI-era (paper-thin hollow, 5/8)
John Shepherd WOLF, 1780's (thick wedge, 1700's style 'no-tang', 7/8 at the widest)
Trud Vacha, post WWII-era Soviet-made stainless (quarter hollow, 6/8, heavy scales)
Fred Fenney 'Tally Ho', 1830's (late regrind, paper-thin hollow, 6/8)
Stodart I & O, 1824 (heavy wedge, experimental iridium-osmium steel alloy. 5/8)
John Hives, 1810ish (slender wedge, 5/8 at widest)

Not really a helpful list!

I think about the differences (variants would be a better word) between razors when I buy them, maintain them, and think about them. But once I've chosen one for the morning shave and have the edge at my sideburn, they are all the same to me. I've never thought 'I wish I had my Grelot in hand right now...'. I do compare the result to other shaves with other razors, but in the moment, I really don't think about what is in my hand, unless it isn't shave-ready of course. For me, size, grind, maker, scale material, whathaveyou, are important reasons to buy and own a given razor. And can have a influence on the final result. But during the actual process of shaving, for myself, only the very edge, the lather, and my concentration bring anything of value to the party.

I've used hollow and extra hollow grinds all my life. Razors from 3/8 all the way to 7/8. I prefer 5/8 and up, round point or square point, makes no difference. My beard is coarse with a lot of tough white whiskers growing on skin as tough as Custer's saddle. I never did try a wedge, frame back, or a big smile.

Variety is the spice of life. Different strokes for different folks. It can't be measured or calculated. For me its the edge that is the bottom line. Now can certain razors have a better edge then others. Yes I think so. I have my favorites that change from time to time. Its a personal thing and that is what makes it fun.

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Cutting (hehe) through all that, there are 6 razors that consistently shave super great for me:

Heljestrand MK 31, WWI-era (paper-thin hollow, 5/8)
John Shepherd WOLF, 1780's (thick wedge, 1700's style 'no-tang', 7/8 at the widest)
Trud Vacha, post WWII-era Soviet-made stainless (quarter hollow, 6/8, heavy scales)
Fred Fenney 'Tally Ho', 1830's (late regrind, paper-thin hollow, 6/8)
Stodart I & O, 1824 (heavy wedge, experimental iridium-osmium steel alloy. 5/8)
John Hives, 1810ish (slender wedge, 5/8 at widest)

Not really a helpful list!

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So, are those razors always in your rotation, all or in part?

(I for one have a devil of a time getting a close shave when my stool is scant and pasty).

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Originally Posted by WW243

So, are those razors always in your rotation, all or in part?
(I for one have a devilish of a time getting a close shave when my stool is scant and pasty).

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Hahahaha.

My rotation!

They're the ones I go to when I don't feel like messing around with it, or when I just want to be certain I'm going to get a good shave.

But my rotation is typically something along the lines of:

10 print "Well, this is the most recent one to come in the mail, I'll hone it and see how it shaves."
20 goto 10

Every now and then I think "I should shave with that particular one, because ________".

And personally, I can't get a good shave on one of those really rugged stools.

Attachment 228677

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Originally Posted by WW243

So, are those razors always in your rotation, all or in part?

(I for one have a devil of a time getting a close shave when my stool is scant and pasty).

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A little to much information there.:lurk:

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Originally Posted by WW243

To collect, use or both...and do you find they shave equally well?

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A little of both TBH. By no means do I need any more razors.... I recently have taken an interest in frameback razors and have been picking up a few examples. I enjoying seeing how they are put together and the differences between them. My current straight rotation consists of three razors. Two of them are square point because I am sporting a mustache and a goatee ATM (easier for me to get the edges), but that may change in six months... or not :shrug:. I picked the one because of the scales, I like the bolster work on the other Wester Bros, and the MBO (french make I think) just to try something different.

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/...psyrwl8gvl.jpg

As far as the shave quality, I find they all shave well. In my experience, while you may need to adjust for the "feel" of the razor (heft, tip differences, ect..) I haven't had a bad shave with any "type". I will note I haven't tried my framebacks yet as I am sticking with a new safety razor for a month to fully master it.