Smiling vs straight blade

I just purchased this vintage John Cockhill smiling razor (white scales)Attachment 246260Attachment 246261. This is the first smiling razor I tried and I love it. It came honed to perfection. First shave observation is as follows. There seems to be less resistance then on a straight blade. If you have problem areas like your neck, chin or upper lip, the smiling blade seems to get to those places easier and with less irritation. I usually do 3 passes but with the smiling blade I didn't need more then 2 passes because the blade got to the trouble areas the first time. Looking at knives, swords and saws, for the most part the blades are curved to reduce resistance and to keep the cutter from getting hung up. I know a lot of you have far more experience then I do but I wonder why modern blade manufacturers don't offer smiling blades as a part of their lines. I would really appreciate the members listing their experience using a smiling blade. Could really help Newbies and those struggling with getting a good shave. I have on the way a custom Jerry Stark smiling blade and it seems that if you do want a smiling blade it has to be made to order.

I too prefer a smiling blade, but it's all about preference. It's almost like: What color do you like? Neither will give a "better" shave over the other or hone easier...it's what you are used to or prefer. Try it all, you will find that over the years you will lean one way, then another, and then yet another. Enjoy the journey!

I think Scott pretty much nailed it. My preferences wain all the time too. I had a long run of really only shaving with 7/8 and larger heavy wedges, then I was loving my large full hollow blades and lately I have been really loving my 6/8 full hollows. Some people do find a handful of razors that they really love and stay with two or three.

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Originally Posted by jkatzman

Looking at knives, swords and saws, for the most part the blades are curved to reduce resistance and to keep the cutter from getting hung up.

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Years ago I ran an indoor pistol range that had a 'meeting room' we'd rent out to various groups, clubs, etc. One of those groups was "Soycity knife makers and collectors." I asked once, what the reasoning for a curved blade was. They replied, "A curved blade increases the cutting area, without increasing the blade length." Not sure about a razor, but it made sense for a regular knife.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

I think Scott pretty much nailed it. My preferences wain all the time too. I had a long run of really only shaving with 7/8 and larger heavy wedges, then I was loving my large full hollow blades and lately I have been really loving my 6/8 full hollows. Some people do find a handful of razors that they really love and stay with two or three.

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I too have stayed liking heavier blades over the years.

My neighbor who has practiced martial arts for 60 years and is a grand master in Ninja Karate and Kung Fu with 23 years as a green beret explained why curved is preferred. He has shown me his Samurai swords and explained his swords are made for cutting, slashing not stabbing. A Samurai sword can cut through a pig carcass with one pass. The curved blade has more cutting surface with less resistance then a straight blade. As the blades surface comes in contact with say the skin, the straight blade pushes the skin instead of moving the skin and hair along the blade surface. He said if the skin is pulled tight both ways the curved blade will still have less resistance and irritation. He also used the example of moving snow. Which moves the snow or dirt easier, a angled blade or straight blade. A razor in the hands of someone with a lot of experience will work great either way but for those of us starting the journey, it's worth trying different things. The pursuit of the perfect shave.

I have never used a smiling blade, but always thought they made more sense as a shaving tool than a flat blade. If you have hollows on your face and neck, the smilers will naturally fit them. The only reason I don't use them, is that I've never learned to hone one. As far as cutting power goes, I think any sharp blade will do and the difference between a smiling blade and a flat blade would be miniscule.

Smile and the world smiles with you ....... smiling straights and slant (twisted head) razors are my crave ............. :)

Gorgeous razors in the OP BTW.

I personally get easier and more comfortable shaves with smiling razor edges.

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Originally Posted by Wayne1963

I have never used a smiling blade, but always thought they made more sense as a shaving tool than a flat blade. If you have hollows on your face and neck, the smilers will naturally fit them. .

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When I discovered that the heel of a straight was also good for this, my shave quality improved dramatically. That small curve can fit into some tight places.

I like both styles but a curved blade seems to work better under the jaw for me. I had a funny thought; Why aren't power lawn mower blades curved? There would be more cutting surface and less resistance.

Heck of an idea. I am off to my garage to start pounding out blades for my lawn mower. Actually it is a very good question.

I use smiling razors almost exclusively now. The only time I use a straight edge is when I take a vintage beater in my dopp kit while traveling or camping.

Just practice a scything cut, with a straight edged razor, where you are moving slightly diagonally as the edge is moving forward. You don’t need an exaggerated lateral movement to get the effect. Make sure your blade is moving forward the whole time, or you will cut yourself.

A smiling razor, does the same thing, only not to the same extent. The more smile/curve, the more the scything effect, where the edge is contacting the beard hair, at an angle. The snowplow is a good analogy.

A smiling razor can be, a bit more challenging to hone, as you must use a rolling X stroke, and pay attention to your pressure, but with a little practice and some sharpie ink, you can easily get the hang of it.

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Originally Posted by MisterClean

I like both styles but a curved blade seems to work better under the jaw for me. I had a funny thought; Why aren't power lawn mower blades curved? There would be more cutting surface and less resistance.

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Lift

The straight blade with the angle in it is designed to lift and move the grass to the outside

That is my understanding of it anyway :)

But yes the older Scythes and hand powered Sickles were curved

Just another thought is that the straight blades are actually moving in a circular motion, so maybe it works the same way a scything stroke works for us with a straight edge :shrug:

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Originally Posted by MisterClean

I like both styles but a curved blade seems to work better under the jaw for me. I had a funny thought; Why aren't power lawn mower blades curved? There would be more cutting surface and less resistance.

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Actually the old rotary/reel mowers, were.

Rotary mowers were known for their fine, clean cut, and were used for manicuring putting greens. Don’t know if they still are.

With a special jig, with a motorized wheel, they were easily and precisely, sharpened.

There is one problem with smiling blades, that is when cutting your side burns , you can't get a straight line.....

I can find the negative in anything :/

Picked up a 5/8 Shumate Tungsteel a couple of years back. Plain Jane swayback, but I would rank it in my top 5 as far as shaves go. Been a few on Ebay lately that have gone for a fair price, would be a good start point for anyone wanting to try a smiler. If you still have sideburns from the '70s use the toe of the razor, it can be done...

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Originally Posted by MisterClean

I like both styles but a curved blade seems to work better under the jaw for me. I had a funny thought; Why aren't power lawn mower blades curved? There would be more cutting surface and less resistance.

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Maybe they took the resharpening of the hypothetical curved lawn mower blade into account. I can see Joe six pack having a hell of a time trying to sharpen one of those in his garage. I'm thinking they are easier and cheaper to make straight for the manufacturer. Then again a 5 hp motor can make up for a lot of deficiency. Hey push lawnmowers had curved blades lol.

One of my concerns was the honing a smiling razor. The John Cockhill wasn't to difficult because it doesn't have that big smile. The Jerry Stark I thought was going to be a real problem. Watched video's and asked a experienced honemeister and it actually isn't that difficult. In fact, I started using the rolling X stroke on my regular razors and it does a very nice job. On regular razors it is more x then rolling.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Just practice a scything cut, with a straight edged razor, where you are moving slightly diagonally as the edge is moving forward. You don’t need an exaggerated lateral movement to get the effect. Make sure your blade is moving forward the whole time, or you will cut yourself.

A smiling razor, does the same thing, only not to the same extent. The more smile/curve, the more the scything effect, where the edge is contacting the beard hair, at an angle. The snowplow is a good analogy.

A smiling razor can be, a bit more challenging to hone, as you must use a rolling X stroke, and pay attention to your pressure, but with a little practice and some sharpie ink, you can easily get the hang of it.

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Another excellent explanation! Thank you Marty.
:beer1:

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Originally Posted by Grazor

Picked up a 5/8 Shumate Tungsteel a couple of years back. Plain Jane swayback, but I would rank it in my top 5 as far as shaves go. Been a few on Ebay lately that have gone for a fair price, would be a good start point for anyone wanting to try a smiler. If you still have sideburns from the '70s use the toe of the razor, it can be done...

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I've got a Shumate Tungsteel as well (Shumate razors are always on my radar for acquisition) and it is one of my favorites. I find that mine will take a wickedly keen edge and that smiling blade is almost a perfect fit for my hallows.

The smiling blade is easier in some areas, but I generally get more irritation with a smiling blade, not less. I have a few of both types, but my very best shavers have a straight cutting edge (I have a relatively small collection though).

I think with smilers, technique needs to be modified some. A smiling blade gives me the chance (with careful planning) to use the heel and toe of the blade more effectively in curved areas like under the jaw and around the chin and nose.
However, it's a matter of trial and error (and equally sharp and smooth edges). In the end, each of our faces is different and is going to feel better being shaved differently.

That's what I like about this hobby...trial and error and varying advice help one find the perfect shave for him.

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Originally Posted by trondsi

The smiling blade is easier in some areas, but I generally get more irritation with a smiling blade, not less. I have a few of both types, but my very best shavers have a straight cutting edge (I have a relatively small collection though).

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Originally Posted by Haroldg48

I think with smilers, technique needs to be modified some. A smiling blade gives me the chance (with careful planning) to use the heel and toe of the blade more effectively in curved areas like under the jaw and around the chin and nose.
However, it's a matter of trial and error (and equally sharp and smooth edges). In the end, each of our faces is different and is going to feel better being shaved differently.

That's what I like about this hobby...trial and error and varying advice help one find the perfect shave for him.

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I completely agree. The technique has to be a bit different with a smiling edge. I should also mention that I have very sensitive skin.

Smiling or straight doesn’t seem to contribute to razor burn for me, or the lack there of for that matter. As long as I have a rounded heal as I use those for the hollows of my neck. Would have to be an Sk1 for me to be able to use a smiler in the hollows of my neck.

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Originally Posted by trondsi

The smiling blade is easier in some areas, but I generally get more irritation with a smiling blade, not less. I have a few of both types, but my very best shavers have a straight cutting edge (I have a relatively small collection though).

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I think irritation is about soap, honing or usage. The geometry of the blade ,not so much.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I think irritation is about soap, honing or usage. The geometry of the blade ,not so much.

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For me, it's mostly the soap and the honing, but I also had to adjust pressure a bit with the smiling edge. The smaller area touching any part of the skin feels a bit more aggressive, so I use less pressure with a smiling edge. Otherwise I get more irritation.

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Originally Posted by trondsi

For me, it's mostly the soap and the honing, but I also had to adjust pressure a bit with the smiling edge. The smaller area touching any part of the skin feels a bit more aggressive, so I use less pressure with a smiling edge. Otherwise I get more irritation.

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Pressure is relative to angle. Like stropping, you can have all the pressure in the world on the spine as long as the edge is just floating.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Pressure is relative to angle. Like stropping, you can have all the pressure in the world on the spine as long as the edge is just floating.

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Pressure is also force to surface area. So if you use the same force and same angle, the smaller area touching your skin (as in a curved edge vs straight) will exert higher pressure from the cutting edge on your skin.

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Originally Posted by ScottGoodman

I too prefer a smiling blade, but it's all about preference. It's almost like: What color do you like? Neither will give a "better" shave over the other or hone easier...it's what you are used to or prefer. Try it all, you will find that over the years you will lean one way, then another, and then yet another. Enjoy the journey!

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really? I was told - especially for beginner, it would be a bit harder to hone smiles?

For learning to hone I don’t see a big difference between a smiling or a straight edge. What really sets a difficult to hone razor from an easy to hone razor is how true the razor is and the hone wear being irregular or not.

On another note a blade with a rather large smile may take a bit to get your strokes consistent. I use an X stroke for pretty much everything, for a smiler just add a little roll. The real trick to getting good with honing is practice.

I like the smilers better for both form/appearance and function. They look more interesting like a sword or sexier with curves. They also look more exotic and harder to make. But they also cut my thick beard better.

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Originally Posted by NittanyGator

I like the smilers better for both form/appearance and function. They look more interesting like a sword or sexier with curves. They also look more exotic and harder to make. But they also cut my thick beard better.

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i somehow find smiles easier to handle around trickier parts of my face. Being a thin, bony sort of fellow a lot of my face has small sharp curves.

Learning to hone a smiling razor is not that difficult. Some sharpie ink and a little time is all you need. Ink the bevel, colored ink is easier to see without magnification and watch where the ink is removed, by how much you lift the heel in a rolling X stroke. Practice on a high grit stone, once you get the amount of “rolling” needed, move to your progression and fully set the bevel, then polish.

The rolling X stroke is a good stroke to master, it will come in handy honing rounded heels and toes of straight razors. Fully honed heels and toes are very handy to shave with

What Euclid said^^^^^

I think one of the biggest breakthroughs in my SR life has been learning how useful well-honed toes and heels can be in the tough, tighter areas of my face!

So how have I missed out on this thread for so long?! I always say, I like both my razors and my women big and curvy (well, my lovely wife of 25 years, who am I kidding?!).

So yeah, it's probably easier to learn to hone a straight edge, but the majority of my razors have been smiling, so I learned to hone them early on. And yes, they do fit the hollows of the neck better, and I agree with the others that that last little bit of blade on the heel and toe can come in handy-I have even been known to try to hone up into that curve on both ends lol (or at least to the point where the increasing thickness makes it impossible)!