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I got to thinking after reading thebigspendur's excellent post (in which by the way he makes it abundantly clear that he really IS a big spender) about what we mean when we talk about a razor's balance.
I'm still relatively new at this, and I don't really know how to tell whether a razor is balanced properly or not. I can feel differences when I strop and shave, but I don't know how to evaluate those differences.
What should I look for to tell if a razor is "balanced" or not?
Josh
I really got a lesson in balance when I tried recently to use one of those Wapienica razors - definitely sharp, definitely not balanced.
Balance to me is when I open a straight to shave, with the scales say at 2 o'clock while the blade edge is at 9 oclock, the blade and the scales balance between my thumb under the tang (think thumb notch) and my middle finger or ring finger on top of the tang with the scales between my first and middle fingers - the blade doesn't pull the scales up down, and the scales don't pull the blade up - it balances on that pivot.
In that way only the lightest pressure is needed to make finesse strokes with the razor down or across and you do not feel like you will drop the razor if you only use two fingers to maneuver it around your face. With the Waps, sharp as they are, I find those steel scales are too heavy, and the blade has a tendency to want to jump up, and I feel like I am fighting the thing the whole shave - it also tends to be rather fatiguing, as my fingers are not so strong as to fight the lack of balance in that razor - my grip on the Wap (in order to make sure it stays straight and doesn't jump) is pretty substantial - and IMHO does not make for a thoroughly enjoyable shave. A good shave but not a relaxing shave - like painting with a 6 inch wide brush, still can make a good canvas, but the lighter strokes are more difficult. Except for the price. And the super sharp blade. And the whole proletariat utilitarian back story. Anyways, did I describe this accurately enough?
K
Josh,
In the shaving video produced by John West, the pro barber discusses razor balance by doing almost exactly what Kriton suggested. However, instead of the scales at 2 o'clock the barber just opens the razor flat so it is one long piece, like a Feather AC. He then places his index finger under the hinge pin and balances it on that finger. If the razor is well balanced the razor will sit there motionless.
FWIW.
i might consider the balance with scales at 2 o clock to be a better assesment as it's the position you will be holding the razor.
with the scales pointed straight out theres a small amount of torque that won't be there during the shave and i think that the razor willl be blade-heavy during the shave. plus if you have your razor opened straight like that during a shave chances are you are probably holding it such that the whole balance thing isnt really an issue
I find if the razor is opened straight out and a finger is positioned just forward of the pivot that gives the best approximation of balance though I'm sure others will disagree. I've found in that manner when you shave you will get that experience. As I said in my review the Masestro is perfectly balanced and when you shave with it though it is a big and heavy razor it moves in an effortless manner on your face and is as maneuverable as many much smaller razors. The Williams razor which is scale heavy is also much heavier on the face and is what most would think a large massive razor would feel like. Kind of like an 18 wheeler on the face.
Big spender eh? So you think I'm a rich guy eh? I'm just a retired civil servant living on a fixed retirement. We all spend our limited resources where we feel most appropriate.
Where is that video available?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfala
Steve,
You can find "The Lost Art of Straight Shaving" DVD at http://users.mikrotec.com/rebel23/ww...avingvideo.htm
Good luck.
I just go by the feel. If it's easy to strop and shave with, it's well balanced. If I have to fight it to maintain proper angles, it's not. Simple, eh? :nj
Sounds good to me. Don't need to overthink these things.Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
Oh, I know of that video. I didn't realize it was the same one. Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfala
No problem.
So has anyone tried to collect the balance of their razor by say adding
some lead tape (I know this sounds silly).
But is there a way to easily balance you razor?
If I have a choice, I'd rather it be a little blade heavy. That's the important part, and the part you need to control. If the scales are too heavy, they torque the blade around in use, making it much more difficult to control.
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Heavier blades are my preference, both for shaving and stropping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Chandler
James.
The Stag razors are usually going to be a little bit scale heavy because of the nature of the stag and how it has to be cut in order to maintain it's character. Stag scales really need a heavy blade. Wood, plastic and micarta are good options for lighter blades, but with heavy blades, they'll usually end up blade-heavy. Ivory and bone often end up just about right with heavy blades, although they can both be scaled down for lightweight blades, too.
Personally, I prefer a mid point balance just in front of the pivot pin when the razors are straight. That usually ends up being what feels best in my hand.
It's just a feel thing for me. If I've got the razor ready to shave and I can feel the weight of the scales pulling it off balance, I'm unhappy with it. If the blade is heavier than the scales I don't seem to mind as much.
X
The Big Spender is right, I owned Aust, Dovos, Boker, Genco, Ontario and and other famous razors and none have the balance of my Mastro Livi's. When you hold it it just fits your hand like a glove and the shave is effortless. Got 3 with another on the way.
I don't know if anyone out there is like me or not but when it comes to balance of a razor i really don't notice. i have razors with large blades and small scales and i have razors with thin blades and larger scales. as long as i can hold on the thing and shave with it i'm ok. I must not be experienced enough. :shrug::
I think the razors balance point should be at the pivot & this is my aim when making new or rescales as it is measurable.
but this is as noted only relevant for stropping or honing when the blade is fully open,
where as when the blade is held with the scales at an angle for shaving the rotational torque is different & the scales can feel heavy especially with "Pivot balanced" heavy near wedge blades, versus as full hollow blade with no weight in the scales or wedge
but at the end of the day I think it all comes down to getting used to the razor you have & use & getting the muscle memory & technique that works for that razor, if you only have 1 razor (as most did) you should not have a problem, as they say "our brains adapt to use what is available"
now this might become an issue for those who have large rotations, as you don't get the full chance to get used to a certain razors feel & balance as well as only having 1
I think this is why many find that their shaves improve if they use the same razor for several shaves rather than just once then move onto the next in rotation
I think I am going to have to take note of all my str8s in future & check the balance of them & see if they are pivot balanced or not & how they feel in shave position verses the balance point
this is just my ramblings & YMMV
I came to the conclusion that those old farts that have been doing this for the past 300 years or so might have known a thing or two and noted that most Vintage razors happen to balance to the same spot you hold on to them..
:shrug: Like most tools do, imagine that :p
Also JMHO and observation but balance becomes more of an issue when you are Stropping and Honing rather then shaving,, so when the razor is fully open
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Attachment 228686
(note the monkey tail and it still balances)
I stopped using the finger as a balance point long ago as it just too easy to cheat doing that :D
I have a "special" nail in the shop I use when building them hehehe
If you simply keep balance in mind when you are building scales it really isn't that hard in fact you pretty much have to toss function out the window and build simply for form to get it wrong
ps; This topic can cause much contention out there in razordom :)
I have one of the very first Boker Elite's that has lined scales. It is definitely NOT balanced. Its a fantastic razor in every other way but the lack of balance makes it a little less comfortable to shave with.
I refuse to check balance on my razors. For the most part they all shave great. I shave with too many blade widths, lengths, and points to worry about balance.
Got to agree with Glen, these are maybe slightly scale heavy as the balance is closer to the pivot than the grip point
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To me balance is vital. I've had too many 'high end razors" that had terrible balance to the point while you are shaving the razor wants to torque away from you which means of course you need to apply pressure. I view a straight as an instrument which should fit you hand precisely and should become part of your hand and you should be almost unaware of it's presence while shaving.
It's kind of like comparing driving an 18 wheeler with a good sports car.
All I can say is that IMO when a razor is in your hand whether horizontal, at a 90 degree angle the feel you have dictates whether you perceive it to be balanced or you can say feels more comfortable. Some may feel to light, other to heavy but when you place the blade on your face and make a stroke, the key is how it shaves. I have noticed some feel so light you get the sensation of a need for more pressure. Others feel to heavy. I also get a feeling from some razors that the are skipping. I like the Livi's because they hold my face with little pressure and I feel no need to increase the angle to get a close shave.
Balance is subjective, IMO. I have some scale-heavy razors and some, blade-heavy.
To me, as long as the pivot is nice and tight, the scales can be adjusted to get good balance (or 'feel'), regardless.
YMMV
I think balance is important. I like the razor to balance just forward of the pivot on the tang. I use my finger to check for balance when making scales for a razor. Nothing fancy as a balance point. The finger works fine. The blade is typically at 9 0'clock and the scales at 1 0'clock when holding the razor to shave. I dislike a razor that is scale heavy as the weight tends to pull the blade away from my face. I find I am very conscious of a scale heavy razor when shaving and dislike having to compensate for it. If I shaved with only a couple of razors I'm sure my muscle memory would learn to compensate and I would not notice. I shave with a different razor most everyday so a razor that is either slightly blade heavy or balances at the tang provides the best feel for me. I cannot recall handling a vintage razor that was scale heavy. As Glen said the old timers had it right.
