John Barber razors, real or fake?

I'm wondering if anyone could help identify if these razors are genuine John Barber razors or if some are fake. The reason I question some of their authenticity is because of this document put out by John Barber declaring that there are only two marks which could appear on genuine John Barber razors.
Attachment 258684

But as you can see, several of these razors have marks other than those in the above ad.
Attachment 258686Attachment 258687Attachment 258688Attachment 258690Attachment 258691Attachment 258692

None of the razor have any marks on the back side. Any help with the marks or dates would be greatly appreciated.

"Goins'" cutlery book shows that there were about 10 persons, related or seemingly not who used the Barber name between 1810 and 1944 with 'T Ellin' using
"ERA JAMES BARBER SHEFFIELD" as their strike.
No illustrations of marks shown.
~Richard

that is quite the stack of Barbers, real or counterfeit. I'd like to help you but honestly I just get stuff that looks cool, I'm not very good at the technical and historic side.

All the patina looks real and old. If they are fakes, they are probably 150-180 years old

Thats.a n8ce group of.old.razors. wish i had something that old. Nice!

For comparing here is my john barber & son
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2902caa661.jpg

I have a John Barber similar to the third one down stamped John Barber on the spine, but on the tang is just the freemason symbol.

There is light at the end of the tunnel Tuzi. John Barber acquire his trademark "John Barber" and picture of a set-square and compass in 1823. The document you posted is from 1839, the document posted below is from 1834. When you read the last part of it, because of the similar I. Barber, for the future or from this time forward he will stamp his razors with both his name and compass and square trademark.

Attachment 258721

And another document.

Attachment 258722

Thanks, Martin, very interesting. So if the marks don't match those on the document, it could be that the razors are before 1834 when it was decided to use only those two marks moving forward. Still a possibility they are counterfeit, as we know that was happening at the same time.

The top one has a mark that matches the document so I'm sure that one is authentic and probably post 1834 based on your info. The next two I am fairly confident are authentic as well, maybe pre-1834?

I'm really unsure about the framebacks, maybe the one with the name on the spine and ivory scales is legitimate? Perhaps it depends on if they were making this style frameback pre-1834. The last one stands out as a real possibility of a fake as it is the only one without the name at all, but again, now I'm so so sure.

Just having fun learning more about them, it's really fascinating to me! Thanks for the responses and info so far.

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Originally Posted by xiaotuzi

Thanks, Martin, very interesting. So if the marks don't match those on the document, it could be that the razors are before 1834 when it was decided to use only those two marks moving forward. Still a possibility they are counterfeit, as we know that was happening at the same time.

The top one has a mark that matches the document so I'm sure that one is authentic and probably post 1834 based on your info. The next two I am fairly confident are authentic as well, maybe pre-1834?

I'm really unsure about the framebacks, maybe the one with the name on the spine and ivory scales is legitimate? Perhaps it depends on if they were making this style frameback pre-1834. The last one stands out as a real possibility of a fake as it is the only one without the name at all, but again, now I'm so so sure.

Just having fun learning more about them, it's really fascinating to me! Thanks for the responses and info so far.

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It seems that from all your "Barbers" razor the frameback without the Barber name could possibly be fake. It is also possible that it was lightly struck and sanded away at some time in history? My personal opinion now is that they are real and that John Barber published the documents because of Issac Barber (I. Barber) razors that are copies of John's.
Attachment 258724Attachment 258725

From that point forward he made sure his razors had both trademark. Interesting history!

And the one stamped John Barber and son is post 1834 after John death.

Another thought, reading the documents again and as you pointed out Martin, is that the counterfeits John Barber was talking about were stamped either "I. Barber" or just "Barber" and were packaged and sealed to resemble a John Barber. He states that he stamped his razors "...with his own name John Barber confiding in the honor of the trade that no one would infringe upon his right..."

This makes me confident that the razors I have with the name John Barber on them are all authentic. The frameback without the name is still suspicious to me though.

Yeah, we posted that at the same time, Martin! That was my thinking too.

As always, you are a wealth of information :chapeau

I have this "John Barrer" (bought in Sweden) which could be an example of counterfeiting??

http://img110.xooimage.com/files/e/0...25-4d2d7e4.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guillaume

I have this "John Barrer" (bought in Sweden) which could be an example of counterfeiting??

http://img110.xooimage.com/files/e/0...25-4d2d7e4.jpg

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Maybe it's just that the B was struck a little too lightly along the bottom making it look like an R? A little hard to see.

Another picture, yes may be you 're right even if the double RR looks similar!

http://img110.xooimage.com/files/5/5...32-51c71cb.jpg

In the world of collectible vintage pocket knives counterfeits began popping up 50 years ago at the knife shows. Names like Remington (the bullet shield models) Case, Winchester, Russell, and probably a few other HIGH DOLLAR knives. I haven't seen it in vintage razors, though I suppose it is possible.

Maybe Wade & Butcher FBUs would be a likely candidate, since the larger examples bring a good buck. I find it unlikely that anyone would go to the trouble of counterfeiting an obscure British maker using a razor that is in a condition which wouldn't bring much whether it was genuine or not. YMMV.

Looks like RR to me based on that close up picture. But maybe it is a B missing the bottom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guillaume

I have this "John Barrer" (bought in Sweden) which could be an example of counterfeiting??

http://img110.xooimage.com/files/e/0...25-4d2d7e4.jpg

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That is impressively fake! A wonderful find!

It doesn't look Sheffield-made at all to me. The shape and proportions of the blade are slightly off, the scales are odd, and the mark is pretty straight-forwardly misspelled. The B and the R letterforms are different, and that is definitely two R's. (The B bows out more than the R does).

The typeface also looks slightly wrong to me.

That said, I assume it's a perfectly fine razor to shave with.

I actively collect antique fakes because it's a fascinating part of the history of production.

This one was probably made in Sweden to be sold on the Swedish market.

However, counterfeits or aspirational copies like the I. Barber razors were made in Sheffield and very possibly by the same workmen using the same tools. Their status as counterfeit stopped being scandalous 170+ years ago when John Barber died. At this point they're cool in their own right!

Counterfeit of 150 years ago was probably still a fantastic razor. I sincerely doubt anybody today would waste the effort required to make a knock off of a quality high enough to pass. Some where in my collection of oddities, I have a 1950's George Washington quarter that is counterfeit. I wouldnt trade it for the world, simply because of how uncommon it must be.

Some more pictures with two others John Barber 's razors, genuine I guess, just to compare!

The steel of the swedish one is quite good and was very collaborative while honing!

http://img110.xooimage.com/files/d/9...78-51c8fd6.jpg

http://img110.xooimage.com/files/f/1...76-51c8fdc.jpg

http://img110.xooimage.com/files/5/9...77-51c8fe3.jpg

I have an old razor marked John Barber Below that is a symbol that I can't quite make out. Below that is stamped WOLF. The razor is in poor shape. Just curious on it's history if anyone can help. Thank you

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Originally Posted by taylorjmt

I have an old razor marked John Barber Below that is a symbol that I can't quite make out. Below that is stamped WOLF. The razor is in poor shape. Just curious on it's history if anyone can help. Thank you

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Post some clear pictures.

I managed to pick up another John Barber frameback... I had to have it (thank you, RAD. I thought I had you under control :shrug:). I paired it up with the other one. So, here's what I'm guessing is the pre 1834 version without the square and compass but with the John Barber and "Patent", then there's the one I just picked up which is would be the post 1834 version with the square and compass added.
Attachment 283363Attachment 283364
They go nicely in a RezDog box...
Attachment 283365

Its so nice when things all go together.
That's RAD in control, cause it was bought with a purpose and not just to have.

So nice grab, and good control, Tuzi

Exquisite, Tuzi! :bow

It all makes perfect sense to me. A guy can't have a nice box without a nice pair in them. Those are sweet razors.

You guys sure know how to make a bruised wallet feel better. Thanks, I knew you'd understand! Outback, you get it, it's RAD with a purpose. And Rez, I finally put together a pair worthy of that "extra" box, I'm glad you approve.

Just picked up this John Barber but I find no Square or compass.
Paid way more than I should have but its an oldie for sure. Any clues as to its age or anything?
Attachment 291520

An old thread, but I would like to show you my John Barber
It is an 11/16 ths hollow ground with mother of pearl scales complete with Barber's square and compass symbol !Attachment 305272Attachment 305273Attachment 305274Attachment 305275
Hope you like
Phil

Very Nice! :tu

That is a gorgeous razor.

That is one fine looking straight. Glad you posted it for viewing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luckypip

An old thread, but I would like to show you my John Barber
It is an 11/16 ths hollow ground with mother of pearl scales complete with Barber's square and compass symbol !Attachment 305272Attachment 305273Attachment 305274Attachment 305275
Hope you like
Phil

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this is certainly a beautiful razor! thanks for sharing. I know Tom (sharpton) must be drooling all over his keyboard, i know he loves MOP scales and English razors.. double price is have them in combo!