Tough Beard = 1/4 Hollow or Wedge?

Gents,
I have a Morley Full Hollow and a Wapi, both in 5/8. Visually, I get nice shaves everywhere on my face :) BUT, my chin and neck has some major wirey beard texture with horrible directional challenges :mad: . Result, to the touch, my chin always has a light bristle even after a 3 pass shave :rant:

Now, it's not all bad...It's actually been great. My neck irritation is much improved (nearly gone) from my Mach 3 and even DE shaves (but my Gem 1912 single edge shaves me closer than my str8s, so far).

I have read that 1/4 Hollow and Wedge Blades are great for guys with my beard type. What brands should I look for? Where do I look? I saw some nice 1/4 Hollow Wackers on PapaBull's site but I am still looking. Any recommendations?

BTW, I was surprised to find that the Wapi shaves me better than the Morley:hmmm: Is it considered a full hollow or more like a quarter?

razors with the SAME fine edge shave the same. Indiferent if the first is full hollow and the other wedge. The diference is that if you have wirey beard the full hollow needs more frecvent honing than the wedge and the feeling of shaving is different( singing or silent )
Before you buy other razors try to improove honing and shaving technic

I'm for you taking your time and improving technique. once you have truly mastered the straight razor shave you will be able to shave with anything, a 3/8 fily, 4/8 DD, 8/8 Williams custom or anything else and allowing for proper beard prep,stropping and keenness of the razor they will all end with the same high quality shave.
the wedges will be quieter and less flexible but that is about it really. for some people the larger razors seem easier but that is just perception... people want to believe that all that extra cash has to equal something.
focusing on the basics with the razors you have will soon be getting you the best shaves then when you have mastered the basics, by all mean spend all you money acquiring every imaginable size and grind. without trying to master the art, you might as well go buy a vibrating fusion and use that.

:)

Alright I'm gonna go slightly against the consensus wisdom here. Yes, Syslight and Yannis are right that what matters is sharp, and once you have the skill you'll be able to shave with any size or grind...

...BUT: When you're a newb with a thick beard and a troublesome chin area, a wedge or 1/4-hollow can be a godsend. Not because they're "better for thick beards" or anything, but because they are more forgiving. If your technique is still subpar, and your blade slightly less than fighting sharp, you can still get a close shave with a wedge, and it won't be skipping and chattering across your chin (my biggest hurdle as a newbie).

This does not however make wedges a "beginner's razor." They're harder to hone, for one thing, and for another, the very fact that they're more forgiving in action can lead to sloppiness if overly relied on. Hollows give more feedback and are more demanding of good technique. Using a wedge grind properly, of course, requires as much skill as using a hollow properly; it's just that it's still reasonable effective even if your skills aren't quite there yet.

My two cents is that newbs would do well to have one wedge/quarter hollow and one full hollow in their rotation; between the two you'll learn good technique, won't get discouraged, and in the end you'll know your preference – while knowing, like syslight and yannis said, that you can shave with anything.

The full wedge can introduce some 'stay sharp' and especially 'get sharp' challenges.
Try the 1/4 hollow or even a half hollow.

X

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dylandog

...you can still get a close shave with a wedge, and it won't be skipping and chattering across your chin (my biggest hurdle as a newbie).

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These days, I don't have the skipping and chattering issues that I experienced the first few times I str8 shaved. And that was with a blade that was honed by an SRP recognized "honing guy". I attribute that to blade angle and direction (ie technique). I am able to get my razors reasonably sharp on the hone (can pass the HHT and they feel sharp and smooth on the face - not like the first time I honed a blade LOL)
Is it still technique or sharpness or blade style???
Thanks

Probably a bit of all three but maybe not in that order. most likely in this order.
Sharpness
Blade Style
Technique
I'm assuming that your technique has come up enough to make it a minor issue.

X

X is probably right (usually is). But I think when it comes to the chin and neck, technique is highly individual and harder to transmit in an online forum. Everything I know about honing, stropping, and basic shaving technique I learned from this forum. (X gave a technique for ATG in the mustache area – works great and I still use it). Ask a question you get an answer that 9 times out of 10 solves the problem.

Not so with the chin and neck, however, in my experience. There it's just trial and error, lots of red spots, and finally an epiphany or two that no one else could have led you to. I finally found a 30-degree south-by-southwest sloping XTG stroke from my right cheek to the middle of my chin that somehow shaves closer than a ATG stroke in that area and causes no razor burn. It doesn't work on the other side; there I have to dry a spot to the left of the matching area, pull the skin much more taut than usual and do a single ATG stroke. Similarly, I've found that an inch-wide band of growth at the lower part of my neck has a subtly different grain from the rest, and that if I start with a S-N pass just on that band, then do N-S for the rest of the neck area, I don't get any spots. No way is this shit the same for anyone else. The grain and whorl of the hair around the mouth and neck is just too idiosyncratic from person-to person, so even if your technique is very very good you might have a little more yet to learn about your face.

Well X certainly deserves alot of credit but don't give him too much or he'll just get a swelled head around here.

I think sharpness is number one because no matter the technique or blade type dull is dull. I think technique is number two, remember an experience race car driver in a VW Beattle could drive the trousers off some novice in a ferrari. I would put blade type as number 3. Much of the difference in shave quality is more a matter of the characteristics of certain grinds and weights of the blades which in experienced hands can be an advantage or disadvantage. To me different grinds are just differences in feel in the end they all shave the same.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I would put blade type as number 3. Much of the difference in shave quality is more a matter of the characteristics of certain grinds and weights of the blades which in experienced hands can be an advantage or disadvantage. To me different grinds are just differences in feel in the end they all shave the same.

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I stand corrected and deeply humbled oh wizened and ancient master ... (very ancient) :D

X

Well... your Wapi is a wedge and some refer to it a single concave 1/4 hollow. The point is that it is a stiff grind with little flex. Some people with heavy/tough/wirey/problem beards prefer the stiffer grinds such as wedge, 1/4 hollow.l/2 hollow, either single concave or biconcave. I am one of those guys.

I do agree that sharpness is the most important characteristic but I will not say that a 5/8 full hollow grind will shave a thick-tough-wirey beard as well as a stiffer grind. That is something that each person has to decide for themselves. Judge for yourself.

There are two things that make a big difference in my shaves
1. Beard prep
2. Patience


Just my two cents,:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Well... your Wapi is a wedge and some refer to it a single concave 1/4 hollow.

There are two things that make a big difference in my shaves
1. Beard prep
2. Patience

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Thanks to all for the input!

Randy,
I had my suspicions that the Wapi was not a full hollow and that that fact had some relevance in the shave for me. Sure, sharpness and technique (experience and expertise) have an overwhelming effect on the shave. I sure as hell noticed it when I first tried honing the Morley and dulled the bejeeeses out of it :rant: Once I figured out how to hone it up again and was passing the HHT and all. I received the Wapi and honed it as well, my technique had not changed between the next two shaves, just the razor from the Morley FH to the Wapi. I will say that the Wapi steel on the hone feels much different than the Morley Solingen steel does. Could be the grind, but the steel feels softer somehow :hmmm: . But the shaves are better, too.

The Wapienica steel feels similar to vintage Sheffield steel, which is to say it's on the soft side but easy to hone, and feels gentle on the face when you're shaving.

my wapi gives me a shave that is as smooth & forgiving as my Maestro is the grind on the wapi a 1/4 hollow ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mparker762

The Wapienica steel feels similar to vintage Sheffield steel, which is to say it's on the soft side but easy to hone, and feels gentle on the face when you're shaving.

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+1 on describing the Wapi

Sharp -
Randy mentioned that he considers the Wapi a 1/4 hollow wedge. I will have to defer to him and his experience. I did notice the difference between my full hollow and the Wapi's blade, however.
Definitely seemed different in several ways from the FH.

I'm also in the stiffer grind camp as a preference thing. But sharp is sharp, no two ways about it. Here's a compromise: Get a large (8/8 or so) Friodur. It feels like a stiffer blade (certainly doesn't flex as much as some of my other hollows) and once you get it sharp, it tends to stay that way for a fairly long time. I find it excellent on the tougher parts of my beard and head.

Failing that, goatees look very manly and fashionable...;)

James.

It can be awkward, here's no doubt. If I have let a day or so go by without shaving then I'll go for my Neppo full wedge to plane off the majority of the undergrowth then switch to an Allen 5/8 full hollow to finish. What matters is results! Use what suits YOU - not what people say. You are a one-off, never to be replicated - same as your beard! Might take a while to find out what suits but isn't it worth it? :tu

The Wapi can be described as either a single concave (wedge) or a single concave 1/4 hollow. The 1/4 hollow definition I picked up from the Razor Central doc in the help files. It is the first grind made to a piece of blank steel that has not been stamped out like they do now at Dovo. BTW, Dove now sells a single concave grind that they refer to as a "Flat" grind. I saw that on their web site a few months ago.

The single concave grind is one that extends from the spine all the way to the edge.

Hope this helps,:)