Deteriming Razor Composition

Is there a way to determine my straight razor's metal type? Currently I have two vintage razors: One is my great-grandfather's that, after doing some investigation, found it was bought from a cheap source. That isn't a knock on my great-grandparents. They were farmers and pretty economical. The second is a flea-market find and seems to be from 1910-20ish time frame. At least that's what I've determined from investigating the internet.

I'm a decent honer, but I'm wondering how I can determine if the razor is stainless or carbon steel. I'm pretty sure the first one is carbon but the second on...not too sure. Is there at test I can perform?

Thanks in advance.

hummmm.... pictures would really help here mate ;)

Most stainless razors are from the late 1950s and later. There are some from the 40s and before that it would be very very rare.

Some stainless is non magnetic but depending on the alloy it might be.

I thought 99% of good older razors were some form of carbon steel. As mentioned before, pics would help.

Are these your first razors? You mentioned being able to hone. If you are talking about sharpening knives that is quite different than honing razors.

They are my first razors and I only hone razors (these two). I am not the best by any stretch, but I get a good edge. I know it could be better.

They are almost certainly both carbon steel of some variety.

IMHO, the differences between honing carbon steel and stainless steel are vastly overstated.

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Originally Posted by BrianWright

They are my first razors and I only hone razors (these two). I am not the best by any stretch, but I get a good edge. I know it could be better.

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If you can get a good shave from your edges that is great, not knowing your background I thought would ask. I've got a box full of razors, but I don't have a lot of experience honing.

There are some x-ray diffraction tests that can be used to analyze metallurgy. However, the testing would be cost-prohibitive for razor testing.

They type of steel used in a razor is only part of the equation. How the steel was heat-treated is equally important, perhaps even more so. High quality razors have been made from various low-alloy steels, mid-alloy semi-stainless steels like D2, and high-alloy stainless steels like 440C. They can all yield a wonderful razor in the hands of someone who knows how to work with that steel. Likewise, poor quality razors can be produced from any of the alloys if they do not know what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Most stainless razors are from the late 1950s and later. There are some from the 40s and before that it would be very very rare.

Some stainless is non magnetic but depending on the alloy it might be.

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Also, wouldn't it probably be indicated on the razor? That would have been quite novel at the time and seems like something that would have been emphasized.

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Originally Posted by JP5

Also, wouldn't it probably be indicated on the razor? That would have been quite novel at the time and seems like something that would have been emphasized.

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Many razors made of stainless will say so. The ones I've seen form the 60s seem to all say so but the few I've seen from when they first started using stainless did not say it. I'm sure the coffin did but once lost.....

Have to make sure people know it is the best thing since sliced bread!

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The thing about vintage razors is the make up of the steel didn't change much between different models or really from one maker to the next. Most of the descriptions of steels were made up by the advertising Depts.of the differen't razor companies. Very few if any "Silver Steel" razors had any silver in them. Silver in other than very small amounts will make the steel softer & not take a good edge. England, Germany, Sweden & the USA were the main razor & knife steel makers & just because a razor was forged & ground in England didn't mean that the steel came from that country. Also just because a blade is made from stainless steel does not make it a better blade, just different. Stainless steel used to make blades has enough carbon to make the steel hardenable & not a "Stainless as normal stainless steel. Blades made of stainless steel are magnetic.
I will take a carbon steel razor or knife any day.

Slawman

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Originally Posted by Slawman

The thing about vintage razors is the make up of the steel didn't change much between different models or really from one maker to the next. Most of the descriptions of steels were made up by the advertising Depts.of the differen't razor companies. Very few if any "Silver Steel" razors had any silver in them. Silver in other than very small amounts will make the steel softer & not take a good edge. England, Germany, Sweden & the USA were the main razor & knife steel makers & just because a razor was forged & ground in England didn't mean that the steel came from that country. Also just because a blade is made from stainless steel does not make it a better blade, just different. Stainless steel used to make blades has enough carbon to make the steel hardenable & not a "Stainless as normal stainless steel. Blades made of stainless steel are magnetic.
I will take a carbon steel razor or knife any day.

Slawman

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From my understanding, the Silver Steel designation (apart from work such as from Faraday / Stodard / Pickslay etc) was meant more as a type of steel rather than literally silver+steel. Then there are of course the ones marked "silver combined with steel" but that's another story. Especially in earlier razors the composition could vary a bit since a lot was dependent upon the composition of the ores (i.e. they were not up to the modern metallurgical abilities to specifically control elemental compositions).

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Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

From my understanding, the Silver Steel designation (apart from work such as from Faraday / Stodard / Pickslay etc) was meant more as a type of steel rather than literally silver+steel. Then there are of course the ones marked "silver combined with steel" but that's another story.).

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Another story, that I would like to learn more about. Teach us Teacher! :bow

I'm sure Zak has more detailed knowledge here, I can just provide some links and overview. Michael Faraday (famous for his development of electricity and magnetism physics) got his start in Metallurgy. In the early 1800s new elements, especially metals, were being rapidly discovered (such as Platinum, Iridium, Osmium, Rhodium, etc), and Faraday worked to alloy them with steel in attempts to enhance properties. The experiments ended in the early 1820s. Here is a 1932 review of some of that work:

https://www.nature.com/articles/129045a0

He worked with James Stodart, a London cutler, to produce cutlery/instruments to test. Some of these razors exist (Zak and I have one each) that are stamped with the alloyed elements they contain:

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The 1932 review actually talks about silver-steel, and offers some anecdotal confusion: silver-steel is the name of a good tool steel that does not necessarily contain silver, but apparently some steel melters in Sheffield would actually throw silver coins into the melt, probably inspired by Faraday's work.

Further, Green, Pickslay & Co. were a Sheffield steel firm and tested such alloys on a pilot scale. See for further reading:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...page&q&f=false

They wrote to Faraday to tell him about their work. Charles Pickslay produced razors under Pickslay & Co., specializing in "Peruvian Steel", but that could just be branding. Based on the other documents it seems that the intentional alloying of (in this case platinum) with steel was only done on that one-off pilot scale.

Some of the "wild card" examples are here:

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These are probably chalked up to dubious marketing. Especially looking only at W&S Butcher, there are examples of "Fine India Steel", "Silver Combined with India Steel", "Magnetic Steel", etc. These were likely all of plain steel and just tagged for marketing. Joseph Elliot razors are commonly marked "Silver Steel", and I don't have the knowledge offhand to say whether this was a Faraday reference attempt or a reference to the tool steel silver-steel - I'd have to look more into that.

There's no doubt that after the publication of Stodart and Faraday's paper on improvements to steel that Sheffield grabbed the idea of silver steel and ran off with it. They were definitely adding minute quantities of silver to the steel (think less than one percent -- a single shilling coin tossed into a full-size crucible of steel). The interaction of impurities in steel is an entire galaxy of conversation, but one of the more likely theories I've seen on what adding silver did was to act as a flux and sweat out more impurities. I'm not entirely convinced of this, but it is very plausible.

For the better part of a year various Sheffield steel refiners argued the relative merits of silver steel in the newspapers using pseudonymous handles like 'Flat Back' or 'A Friend to Invention'. At least one of the respondents was transparently Charles Pickslay.

The practice of tossing a shilling into the crucible continued into the early 1900's. There's no good reason to think Sheffield-made razors marked 'Silver Steel' didn't get the same treatment.

Whether it did anything or not is a completely different story.