Vintage wedge vs modern hollow ground?

I have been using a modern hollow ground razor by Theirs Issard for some time but yesterday I decided to try an old Sheffield razor with much more of a wedge profile that had belonged to my father and possibly even my grandfather. This had been abused in the past and was rusty and chipped but I managed to clean it up sufficiently to try it out. I tend to shave only about once a week and my stubble is very wirey and coarse (my technique is still not 100% and I usually have to finish certain areas with a safety razor, but that is another story).

To my surprise the feel of the wedge was quite different to the hollow ground despite having the same blade width. It seemed smoother and better controlled. Anyone else had a similar experience I wonder?

The modern razor profile is on the left in the first picture.

Attachment 289464Attachment 289463

I find i like the extra hollow ground razors better. I seem to get a better shave from them and i like the sound of it cutting thru the whiskers. I have near wedge razors and can get a g9od shave fr9m them, but its not really my cup of tea. To each there own, or in other words YMMV.

Im NOT saying one is better than the other, just in my experiances the more hollow the better.

Yes, the shaving experience is very different between using a hollow ground or wedge razor. My guess is that the extra mass of the wedge would make it feel like you had a smoother more controlled shave. It is an eye opener when you first compare the shaves from blades at the opposite ends of the grind spectrum. It is like the difference between using a rapier and a boarding cutlass.

I have all types of grinds in my rotation and all are capable of giving a fine shave but I lean towards the very hollow ground ones as favourites. It is all personal preference as to which one favours.

You are lucky to have an heirloom razor to enjoy.

Bob

The advantage of the wedge over a hollow ground is that the whiskers don't get a chance to duck down out of the way.
A hollow ground you can hear a mile away, sounds like you are scraping burnt toast...
A wedge, nothin...

Interesting. The angle at the cutting edge should be similar in both razors, and both are made of high quality steel, so the only differences would seem to be the weight of the blade and the angle of rake beyond the honed and stropped edge. My initial hypothesis was that when shaving rough stubble the extra heft of the wedge helps it follow a steady course (in rather the same way as old Norris woodworking planes with extra thick blades perform better than modern ones) but an alternative thought is that for longer stubble the wedge forces the hairs to stand up more before the cutting edge slices them off.

Nice analogy with the Norris infill planes: wedges do have a bit of momentum behind them but it is the thin blade of the full hollow that generates the "scraping toast" sound. I also think the greater weight in the hand has a contribution to how they shave, or rather how you perceive they are shaving. Other opinions welcome.

i prefer a heavy and bigger blade myself,love the silence and stealth of a wedge. (though for some reason i find them harder to hone than a hollow grind)

I also have a full range of grinds, and can get a very good shave with any of them. I do tend to prefer the 1/2 hollow and 1/4 hollow. Mostly because of the feedback. I typically like to shave in silence. I think that part of why many people struggle a little with honing wedges is they also have more of a tendency to be smilers, which is yet another aspect to this. The straight edge versus the big smiler. . .

I have shaved with all grinds. Properly honed they all give great results. IMO the sound of a full hollow ground is caused by the steel vibrating under the strainof the beard hairs being cut. That said my preference is the heavier wedge or near wedge. It just feels better in the hand. I find I have a little more control and less of a chance of nicking myself. Or it could be that I just enjoy shaving with a 100 plus year old rasor that has a history it unfortunately cannot tell. Who knows where it has been and who it may have shaved. I can only imagine and enjoy.

I have to say that I have the same TI razor and another with the steel scales. I like them both but my old Joe Eliot wedge is my favorite. I like the control of it and the heft of the blade. A bit of it may also be that I enjoy the fact that it is such an old piece and that it has character that the new blades can not hope to match.

Normally I prefer hollow razors but if I go a week or two without shaving I like the wedge more.

I've also noticed the difference, still none of them are what I prefer

I never understood the appeal of framebacks until recently, they're a special kind of razor and they shave marvelously
I look at them as small miniature wedges with a frame or spine added

Wedges are throwbacks to a time when the only way they knew to make a cutting edge was a wedge and it had to be big and massive. Once they learned about hollow grinding they never looked back.

Most of what folks call "wedges" are not true wedges. They are at best near wedges or part wedges. A true wedge is a very rare animal indeed and a pain to maintain.

Yes they do shave totally different because they are different.

They all shave good, if quality. Just different.
Learning to enjoy them all in their time is an acquired taste.
Lotsa fun and variety!
JMO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Wedges are throwbacks to a time when the only way they knew to make a cutting edge was a wedge and it had to be big and massive. Once they learned about hollow grinding they never looked back.

Most of what folks call "wedges" are not true wedges. They are at best near wedges or part wedges. A true wedge is a very rare animal indeed and a pain to maintain.

Yes they do shave totally different because they are different.

---

You are right that the vintage razor I described is not a "true" wedge because it is hollow ground on both sides but the depth of the hollow is much less than that on the Theirs Issard. I would hesitate to claim however that the cutlers of Sheffield did not know any better. If this razor had been ground with a very deep hollow it is unlikely to have survived as long as it has.

The only difference I find between the wedge and full hollow is, that the wedges have a bit of drag for me. Or you could say they stick to my face more than a full hollow. I attribute this to the width of the bevel that can be found on some old vintage blades. But the shave results are the same, sometimes better than full hollows.

I like um all...!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NigelW

You are right that the vintage razor I described is not a "true" wedge because it is hollow ground on both sides but the depth of the hollow is much less than that on the Theirs Issard. I would hesitate to claim however that the cutlers of Sheffield did not know any better. If this razor had been ground with a very deep hollow it is unlikely to have survived as long as it has.

---

No doubt the Sheffield cutlers used the best method of grinding that they knew of when making near wedges. I don't think the ability to grind very hollow was available to them then. It was the introduction, by the Germans, of the "Hexe" grinding machine that finally allowed for razors to be very hollow ground.

STRAZORS.com - all about classic razors - Carl Friedrich ERN, Solingen-Wald.

Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BobH

No doubt the Sheffield cutlers used the best method of grinding that they knew of when making near wedges. I don't think the ability to grind very hollow was available to them then. It was the introduction, by the Germans, of the "Hexe" grinding machine that finally allowed for razors to be very hollow ground.

STRAZORS.com - all about classic razors - Carl Friedrich ERN, Solingen-Wald.

Bob

---

Very interesting. I have a razor of unknown date but probably second quarter of the 20th Century which is clearly not German (it is marked "NBS Empire Made") which is flat on one side but very hollow ground on the other. It is rather cheap looking and has what appears to be a Bakelite handle.

For me however the jury is still out on whether the very hollow grinding is a benefit. The cutting angle of the blade is the same and it would chip more easily. The one practical advantage I can see, other than shave quality, is that as the razor continues to be sharpened the honing edge will remain narrow whereas in the flatter blade it could get much wider.

Flat on one side and ground on the other sounds like a medical instrument. They are very common.

Most true wedges are products of the 19th century and not the end of it either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NigelW

... which is flat on one side but very hollow ground on the other.

---

Sounds like it is a microtome.

Cheers, Steve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NigelW

Very interesting. I have a razor of unknown date but probably second quarter of the 20th Century which is clearly not German (it is marked "NBS Empire Made") which is flat on one side but very hollow ground on the other. It is rather cheap looking and has what appears to be a Bakelite handle.

For me however the jury is still out on whether the very hollow grinding is a benefit. The cutting angle of the blade is the same and it would chip more easily. The one practical advantage I can see, other than shave quality, is that as the razor continues to be sharpened the honing edge will remain narrow whereas in the flatter blade it could get much wider.

---

It does sound like what you have is a microtome and not a razor.

How wide a bevel will be is usually related to the relationship between the spine width and the blade width, blade geometry. Ideally the ratio between the two allows for a 17 degree bevel angle. If the spine is too narrow the bevel will be wide and if it is smaller than optimum the bevel will be smaller. Add to that the theory that as you hone, without tape on the spine, you are removing metal from the spine as well as from the blade which should keep the ratio the same and therefore the bevel size should not change. That is the theory but in practice over a hundred plus years of use and heavy handed honing have left many a razor with a spine that is too narrow for the blade width and a large bevel as a consequence.

Anyway, like others have said, the choice of grind is a personal preference as all grinds will shave well assuming the blade is ground and tempered properly as well as honed to the same degree of sharpness. Enjoy them all for what they have to offer.

Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Christian1

Normally I prefer hollow razors but if I go a week or two without shaving I like the wedge more.

---

2 or 3 days and I grab the a wedge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tintin

i prefer a heavy and bigger blade myself,love the silence and stealth of a wedge. (though for some reason i find them harder to hone than a hollow grind)

---

I'm with you on the "silence and stealth of a wedge", but we part company over "heavy and bigger blade". I've got a good number of 9/16" and 5/8" near-wedges, and I get a much better, more enjoyable shave with them, than with larger and/or heavier wedges or full-hollow ground razors. I include ¼- and ½-hollow grinds in the "near-wedge" family. This combination of grind and size was very popular among American straight-razor manufacturers from the later part of the 19th century and on through the mid-20th century.

I have near wedge, half hollow, and full hollows. I have very tough whiskers around the chin and upper lip. In my experience the flex that full hollows have makes them a little jumpy when attacking those tough beard areas, causing nicks. The half hollows are less so, and the near wedges mow right through them. This is especially true if the razors are not right off the stones and are not at optimal sharpness. So my conclusion is that your razor grind should match your beard type.