Durability, water resistance, feel and other (dis)advantages of scale materials

Since I'm planning on getting my first straight razor in the near future (a Koraat), I'm looking at all the different scale materials and their advantages/disadvantages. I already know I will clean the scales with water and some hand soap if the scales get sticky because a bit of lather got onto them. While wooden scales look great, I totally don't trust them regarding water resistance.

Next up was horn, but apparently it can warp, needs some maintenance and has a bad smell? So onto the next option(s)...

Currently my 2 preferred options seem to be black G10 and juma (golden dragon or blue snake). After some googling, it appears that G10 consists of multiple layers of fiberglass stacked on top of each other with some kind of glue in-between them and it's said to be extremely durable.

I'm wondering how it feels in the hand though. Does it feel smooth or textured? Does it feel like regular glass or something totally different? What about its water resistance? And how does Juma compare to G10 since Juma is apparently some kind of plastic. Does it feel like cheap plastic? Is it water resistant?

And then there's also bone, MOP laminated acrylics, kirinite, lightning strike carbon, acrylic, paper micarta and magma polyester. So many options it almost drives me insane. :)

Each one has it's strengths and weaknesses


G10 etc: is near indestructible as long as they are made thin enough to flex they make great scales..

The texture is dependant on the builder they can be made smooth as glass or textured


ps: You are way overthinking it, we call that "Analysis Paralysis"

Had Glen replace some shoddily done MoP scales on a Friodur 15/16 I bought when starting out and had him use Ghost Jade G10 with a ruby wedge. It's one big, heavy Solingen stainless razor. The texture of those G10 scales seems just grippy enough and the material seems capable of lasting a LONG time.

I wondered if Glen had textured them that way. Thanks for answering my question, Glen!

:)

A lot of traditional razors had horn scales because they were "plastic" & able to be shaped by heat. Great for the warped razors. Then came real plastic, bakelite, celluloid etc. They had their own flaws.
I think todays acrylic is a great compromise with 2 faults I can think of. It scratches easily & will craze badly if it meets alcohol but only if you use fire to smooth the surface. I doubt many razor makers use that technique so that's no biggy.
G10 is actually a very stiff material I find unsuitable for scales in spite of it being used by some.
Never used the other synthetics.

Yes, G10 is the baddest stuff around when thin, IMO.

Slow down, Cobra. We are old!

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Yes, G10 is the baddest stuff around when thin, IMO.

Slow down, Cobra. We are old!

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It's durable but nasty to work :p

I had heard that!

Yep. Your thinking too hard. Still, its good to plan and ask questions. I like the look of his acrylic scales. Send him a pm and get his opinion of what he thinks is best for a newbie.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Each one has it's strengths and weaknesses


G10 etc: is near indestructible as long as they are made thin enough to flex they make great scales..

The texture is dependant on the builder they can be made smooth as glass or textured


ps: You are way overthinking it, we call that "Analysis Paralysis"

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Yep, when researching stuff I tend to over analyze things. However, I will come to a decision in the end. Just doing my best to make sure it's the right one.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

A lot of traditional razors had horn scales because they were "plastic" & able to be shaped by heat. Great for the warped razors. Then came real plastic, bakelite, celluloid etc. They had their own flaws.
I think todays acrylic is a great compromise with 2 faults I can think of. It scratches easily & will craze badly if it meets alcohol but only if you use fire to smooth the surface. I doubt many razor makers use that technique so that's no biggy.
G10 is actually a very stiff material I find unsuitable for scales in spite of it being used by some.
Never used the other synthetics.

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Hmm now I've got to research how scratch resistant juma is. :thinking:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

It's durable but nasty to work :p

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Good thing I don't have to make the scales myself then. :p

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Originally Posted by Gasman

Yep. Your thinking too hard. Still, its good to plan and ask questions. I like the look of his acrylic scales. Send him a pm and get his opinion of what he thinks is best for a newbie.

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Yeah, it's taking into account the advantages and disadvantages of the materials on the one hand and balancing that out with the looks of the materials on the other hand.

For me the feel of the scales on a razor is irrelevant in the sense that I do not shave or strop by gripping the scales. For either one I grip the blade by the tang. They are there to protect the blade while in storage. I'd just go with something you like the look of.

I suppose the modern scale materials are more durable than the older traditional ones.

Bob

Good point Bob. I hadnt thought of it that way but you are right. The only time i really touch the scales with a grip is to pick it up out of the drawer and to put it back.

Talk to Ulrick. If you are buying a koraat from him he will work out all the details and advantages/disadvantages. In the end, it is almost entirely aesthetic in choice. His blade will last forever no mater your scale and you dont hold the scale to shave.

His homage to the Filarmonica would be my choice....I think. I dare not look at that Configurator.

Horn is hard to beat, there are razors over a hundred years old sill kicking with original horn scales on them. And it polishes easily and nicely.

It only smells if you are cutting or sanding it, which you won’t be doing.

Camel's bone is a very nice material for scales, I have one custom razor with Camel bone scales and I love the look and feel of them.

https://i.imgur.com/8kfs5QI.jpg

I prefer bone over any material as to feel. Still, horn and ivory are quite nice too.

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

Camel's bone is a very nice material for scales, I have one custom razor with Camel bone scales and I love the look and feel of them.

https://i.imgur.com/8kfs5QI.jpg

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You dirty devil and that sexy setup. Tis true if you are buying the "one" go big, go mammoth, go ivory, go one-off white whale penis. But, for me go what says "your razor". Who are you and what material defines you? The performance matters about as much as a piss in the corner of a parking lot.

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Originally Posted by Speedster

His homage to the Filarmonica would be my choice....I think. I dare not look at that Configurator.

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If I counted correctly, there are 156 options in his Sheffield design configurator and 135 options in his #14 design configurator.

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

Camel's bone is a very nice material for scales, I have one custom razor with Camel bone scales and I love the look and feel of them.

https://i.imgur.com/8kfs5QI.jpg

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Camelbone does look nice, but I prefer darker scales. It's also €40 for the camelbone scales, while I was thinking about spending €20-30 for the scales.

You mentioned you want to "wash the lather off" the scales when it gets on there with water.

I would advise against this as water could get into the pivot and be difficult to dry off. Just use some dry paper towel or TP to wipe it off.

My preference is bone or horn, aesthetically speaking.

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Originally Posted by dinnermint

You mentioned you want to "wash the lather off" the scales when it gets on there with water.

I would advise against this as water could get into the pivot and be difficult to dry off. Just use some dry paper towel or TP to wipe it off.

My preference is bone or horn, aesthetically speaking.

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I've thought about the pivot being the weak spot. The way I do it with my shavette is rinse it (scales + blade) off, then dry it off with a towel and then use a hair dryer to make everything super dry.

Go with what material you gravitate to. What's your style..
The considerations you noted involving durability and water resistance are of little concern. When you get more experience with a razor, you will find it will not be covered in soap, or need serious cleaning.. No need to throw it in an autoclave..
Regarding wood.. Not all wood is equal.
I had African Blackwood in a wet moldy basement for a long time, not one bit of mold or rot. So hard oily woods are infact quite durable and mold resistant.
This is not a combat knife headed to a tropical war zone.

It seems as though even with this information that you will probably still lean toward synthetics, this is perfectly fine.
What's more important is what really makes you happy.
Welcome to the forum! I hope you thoroughly enjoy yourself and find what you are looking for.

The easiest way to avoid possible trouble at the pivot is to not get lather near it or the scales. I am not that coordinated when shaving but don't recall getting the lather past the blade by much.

Bob

I manage to get lather and water everywhere! I rince and dry and air dry afterwards. I dont worry about rust in the pivot as i keep an eye on them and if something was to start looking wrong i will unpin, clean and repin. No big deal.
Im not one to keep water out of the pivot.

As Mike T. said, hard woods will hold up for many years without rot. If wood scales are made properly they are sealed so water cant get to the wood. Even in the pivot holes of the scales.

But i vote for Bone! :)

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Originally Posted by CobraX

Since I'm planning on getting my first straight razor in the near future (a Koraat), I'm looking at all the different scale materials and their advantages/disadvantages.

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Since you're buying a Koraat, I would recommend their bone scales. I recently bought what looks to me to be an NOS Koraat with bone scales off eBay, and I've got to say that Koraat does some of the nicest bone scales I've ever seen, I was really impressed. If I had decent pictures of it I'd upload them, but I don't yet. I'll try to tomorrow. Very white with high polish, no big ugly brown pores at the ends. Not quite the glow of good ivory, but very nice indeed, and better than a lot of the dull-finish ivory I've seen sold as scales. The rave reviews of Koraats on this forum are no joke, he does very nice work, this was my first Koraat. Pretty much all of the same advantages as ivory in terms of tradition and beauty when they are done to Koraat's level, I see no downside.

Horn would be my own next choice, I love the material. It only really requires maintenance if you're buying really old vintage horn scales. On new horn scales, I would think a little mineral oil rub about once a decade or two would be enough, lol.

The only G10 scales I have were done by Max, and I love them! Beautiful and indestructible. But Max is such an artist that what he can do with G10 may not be what others can do, so I've never bought any G10 scaled razors or restores from anybody else. I love G10 handgun grips too. All upside, no downside.

Next for me would be celluloid, because so many makers did so many artistic things with it back in the heyday. Unbelievably brilliant colors, super sharp and clever embossing designs, I just love it. The downside is celluloid rot; I had a beautiful Busch Weltmeister in beautiful ruby red scales get totally trashed by celluloid rot, the blade was ruined by the time I caught it. It's the only celluloid razor I own that it ever happened to, and I'm glad I caught it before it spread to others, but it makes me nervous about celluloid.

My least favorite scale material is wood. It looks great, but doesn't balance well for me with even the most dense tropical hardwoods (particularly with razors with thicker grinds). It mars easily, and if it has been so stabilized that it is mar-resistant, it tends to look plastic to me. And it is prone to swelling and warping and splitting, for me anyway.

Although I recommend Koraat's bone scales, I just can't resist the opportunity to show off the restore that Max did on my old Wade & Butcher blade I sent him years ago, using very cool layered black and blue G10 scales, a perfect match for a big W&B. Probably my favorite razor in my collection, a true beauty. It shows what's possible with G10. Max's pictures, not mine (but thankfully the razor is!)

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Originally Posted by Speedster

His homage to the Filarmonica would be my choice....I think. I dare not look at that Configurator.

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I have put together a couple on there but haven’t pulled the trigger. Surprisingly not outrageous, imho.

My vote for scales is horn, but I love horn, a lot. The camel bone looks really nice too, it can be dyed black as well, not sure he offers it but I’ve seen it before. I think, ultimately whatever you pick will hold up fine, I don’t treat my razors like my knives, or any other tool for that matter. Tools for delicate work often get treated delicately.

Good luck, I can’t say I’m not a little jealous of your razor choice.

My preference is bone and horn. Thayer are both a nice material, and strong as well as durable. There are some cool bone scales around and some very nice horn ones as well. The juma is a cool material too as well as acrylester. The options seem endless. We each need to decide what appeals most to us, kind of like most things in life.

Horn and paper micarta here.

I like wood, just for the fact that none can be identical to the next, when it comes to their grain. Nature offers the beauty.

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I will add one picture to backup Outback opinion.

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Wood can be beautiful!

I have found that plastic scales break the easiest .

Wooden scales are beautiful but its lack of flexibility has cause me many a lined wedge nightmare .

I always think that darker scales look better but ivory and honey horn disprove that .

that's my 2 cents :gl:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Horn is hard to beat, there are razors over a hundred years old sill kicking with original horn scales on them. And it polishes easily and nicely.

It only smells if you are cutting or sanding it, which you won’t be doing.

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Euclid440, I'm making some horn scales for a blade i got from Bruno. I have several razors with horn; I like them all and none have warped.

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

Camel's bone is a very nice material for scales, I have one custom razor with Camel bone scales and I love the look and feel of them.

https://i.imgur.com/8kfs5QI.jpg

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Those are graceful, elegant scales. I will be looking for some camel horn material.

I think the only natural scale material that's still a realistic option here is horn. Wood can be gorgeous, but I simply don't trust it enough. I generally prefer darker scales like e.g. this black horn or this brown horn. Although I think my preference currently is Juma (either Golden Dragon or Blue Snake) followed by black G10.

Juma Golden Dragon
Juma Blue Snake

I have a lot of 200+ year old horn scales still going strong.

As long as you aren't soaking them in hot water, the only maintenance required for them is the same as the blade -- a good wipe down. I'd be a little careful with a hair drier. Basically, just hold the razor & scales in my hand, if the air is too hot to hold onto, it's too hot for the horn.

The only other proviso is that I'd keep them in a container where I knew that dermestid beetles would not be. So, if you work anywhere that organic defleshing of bones occurs, be careful, because those beetles will eat horn (and tortoiseshell, which is just fancy horn in the grand chemical scheme of things).

Also, bone can be dyed black.

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Originally Posted by FatboySlim

Since you're buying a Koraat, I would recommend their bone scales. I recently bought what looks to me to be an NOS Koraat with bone scales off eBay, and I've got to say that Koraat does some of the nicest bone scales I've ever seen, I was really impressed. If I had decent pictures of it I'd upload them, but I don't yet. I'll try to tomorrow. Very white with high polish, no big ugly brown pores at the ends. Not quite the glow of good ivory, but very nice indeed, and better than a lot of the dull-finish ivory I've seen sold as scales. The rave reviews of Koraats on this forum are no joke, he does very nice work, this was my first Koraat. Pretty much all of the same advantages as ivory in terms of tradition and beauty when they are done to Koraat's level, I see no downside.

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CobraX, here are a few pictures of the bone scales on the Koraat I was talking about, for your reference.

Full disclosure, I shaved with the razor the first time a few days ago and honestly found it awkward. It will take some getting used to. I bought the razor because I very much like a thumb notch, but this one has a very long tang with the notch close to the blade heel, and no jimping in the notch. So getting a solid grip on it and stropping it took some practice. The bone scales, steel, workmanship, and honing were all very well done for sure. But this is an unusual razor that requires a different grip than I'm used to. Worth the effort I hope!

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When brand new to SR shaving join on here my biggest and most important hope is they become lifelong users.. And #2 is when Alll of the AD's kick in they share pics of all the acquisitions and the question " I cant stop myself, how do I stop? I told myself no more.. But i couldnt let these 2 razors go look at the Cocobolo scales!.. That rabbit hole is bitch to get out of but damn those AD"s are exciting & expensive....