Question about Solingen razors, with gratuitous Puma and JNat shots and review

I recently purchased the Puma 1938 hohl 6/8ths shown below, I believe it is my first ever Puma. I've always wanted a Puma based on reputation, and the Spanish point and rubber tang grip on the 1938 appealed to me. When I found one in really good shape in 6/8ths, I jumped.

When I was researching Puma razors, there seem to be mixed opinions on Puma. Based on the catalog info from Manah posted on strazors.com, my 1938 was produced sometime between the 1950s - 1970s, probably the 70s. The pre-war Pumas marked Lauterjung & Sohn are apparently universally respected, but the post-war Pumas were perhaps made by many makers such as Dovo, and post-war Pumas are not thought highly of by old razor hands from Solingen, viewing them as nothing special, just good razors, but marketing hype.

My question: Are there Solingen brands that are well-respected by everybody, including the old hands from Solingen?

My own personal experience is that Busch Weltmeisters and Dorkos (and Filarmonica, accepting they were actually made in Solingen rather than Spain) really stand out to me as special and different Solingen brands, but that's just my own opinion, based on my limited real-world experience. I may have missed a lot of good options I've never heard of.

My opinion on my Puma 1938 is that it honed more easily than any razor I think I've ever honed. The edge I got was one of the best I've ever gotten, the first shave incredibly smooth and close. The ergonomics of it and acoustics of it when shaving are top notch and unique. I like the thick scales, the rubber tang grip looks great and seems like a great idea, but doesn't really contribute anything but cool looks. On the downside, that first edge and first shave I got was fantastic, but subsequent shaves have been pretty ordinary. Certainly not bad, but not like that first amazing shave. The edge off the stone does not seem to hold up for me the way my Filarmonica and W&Bs do, for long periods. It's still a good shave, just not the magic of that first edge. Maybe it's me, and because it was new and different the first shave I viewed it differently.

Anyhow, here it is in all it's splendor. A very nice razor and good shaver, and I don't regret snagging it:

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I don’t know the answer to your question, but that’s a good looking razor.

I was once a Puma fan boy and had many over the years, ranging from early Lauterjung to later models that some claim were made by outfits such as Dovo. I released most of them back in the wild and kept two.

They are good razors, but there is nothing inherently special about Puma razors over most Solingen brands of that period.
They were all typically mass produced razors with good quality control.

Puma had the nice durafol razor cases, compelling ad copy in their little booklets and the "twice forged" label on the scales which likely add to their appeal.

As far Solingen razors go, I find the quality of the grind is what makes one outstanding. You can find outstanding examples in many brands which is why I no longer chase specific brands.

The extra hollows are what required the most skill and brands that produced such grinds consistently stood out from the crowd.

As far as which Brands keep an edge longer, I have never really paid attention to that nor attributed edge longevity to Brands. Maybe your experience could be affected by other variables, such as stropping, blade drying and storage....even placebo!

So to answer your question, "Are there Solingen brands that are well-respected by everybody, including the old hands from Solingen? "

Yes, one that comes to mind is Bergfeld and Sohn. They made Globusmen and Sahara " Camel rider " razors. They are hard to find in mint condition, but they are a fine example of Solingen razor craftmanship.

My question: Are there Solingen brands that are well-respected by everybody, including the old hands from Solingen?

Certainly.

To answer your question, J.A. Henckels stainless Friodur razors are well respected and much sought after, but unfortunately J.A. Henckels, while the company is still going strong, gave up straight razor production decades ago.
They are deservedly the second-largest group in my razor collection as they can take and hold a very nice edge and can provide very close, comfortable shaves. They used to be very popular in their day, are therefore not that difficult to find, but their known qualities affect price.

Another traditional brand that has experienced a resurgence of new old stock (NOS) razors some time ago is Revisor.
Being NOS, they became all the rage at that time and I was interested to buy at least one, but the company that markets them never responded to my e-mails, had actually earned a reputation for difficult communications, and I decided that I didn’t need a Revisor that badly and just left it at that.

Another traditional brand is Dovo, I own two from the first half of the 20th century, but never felt much desire to buy one of their current production straight razors, as reviews are mixed and, to be frank, I expect more when buying a new razors. They are the biggest remaining manufacturer of German straight razors today though, so they are hard to overlook.

Highly respected current producers are Böker and Wacker, small manufacturers that make excellent razors. Wackers are extremely well made, but can be pricey. I am very impressed with mine.

One of the newer names is Ralf Aust, a small manufacturer (I believe he makes all his razors himself) who justifiably has earned a great reputation for making quality razors at a reasonable price. Austs are the largest group in my collection as I found them well-made, quality razors.

If someone were looking for a current production Solingen razor but not willing to pay a small fortune, I would therefore recommend to take a look at Austs first.


Hope this helps...



B

Let me begin be clearly stating that this is a nice looking razor in excellent condition. And since it seems to work for you, congratulations.

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Originally Posted by FatboySlim

When I was researching Puma razors, there seem to be mixed opinions on Puma.

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"Research" can be a bit hard when you are dealing with a lack of original sources and a lot of rumour and opinions.

I grew up in the area, my mother still lives 30km from there, and I used to go there occasionally until I moved south. Back then (10-5 years ago), I had the opportunity to talk to retired razor makers (technically speaking, "cutlery and everything else makers"). They offered opinions that sometimes do not quite align with the rumours and opinions on the internet.

Case in point, Puma was very low on their list of desirable razors. Very, very low. Not because they were bad, but because they were meh. Mass produced and boring. Now, we may take a fancy to their industrial design's aesthetic values now, but back then, they were certainly not among the most exciting razors.

Now, to put what they said into perspective, one has to realise two things:

1. Razors were mass-produced for decades. The big brands in particular outsourced parts of their work when there was a spike in demand. Therefore, the popular opinion that there is such a thing as "razors by brand X are unquestionably superior" is simply not tenable. Your Puma may well have been made by Dovo workers - or some old guy on the side. Also, bear in mind that razor production was a highly optimised process with several individual steps. A bit like Porsche putting their logo on one of their SUVs and then calling that car "made in Germany" when in reality, it's mostly made in the Czech Republic.
2. One should stop thinking of every single razor as a masterpiece, lovingly made by one individual with super skillz. Think of it more as a toilet plunger. A very well-made toilet plunger made by serious professionals using a skilfully engineered production process, of course. But a household utility nevertheless, rather than a show piece.

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Originally Posted by FatboySlim

My question: Are there Solingen brands that are well-respected by everybody, including the old hands from Solingen?

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"By everybody" is a high bar to clear. Think about it this way: If a company making toilet plungers had made bad toilet plungers for decades, would it have stayed in business? The answer is, "probably not." Therefore, vintage Solingen razors can generally bought with confidence, because they were competing in a cut-throat market (I'll see myself out...).

One more thing: Would anyone keep a bad toilet plunger? No? Then would they keep a bad razor? See, and that is why you will not find too many bad razors from that period.

Last, do yourself a favour and put some oil under that rubber thing. That area is a rust magnet. Don't ask how I know this.

Have a good weekend,
Robin

That is a fine looking Puma you have there, congrats and enjoy. I'd take the advice of oiling under that rubber grip on the tang. From what I have read on here over the years that rubber grip can foster and hide rust underneath it.

I have experience with a limited number of vintage Solingen razors, relative to others on here, and have to say that I am no more impressed by the brands with "reputations" than those that are hardly known on this side of the pond. All of the vintage Solingen razors I have used honed up well and shaved well regardless of who made them. I believe they had pretty good quality control standards in the old days in order to survive in the crowded razor making world of that time.

Today I buy a razor that I like the looks of, that is in decent condition and a reasonable price. Brand name does not weight into it that much anymore.

Bob

I have your razor’s 5/8 little brother.

When I received it, there was a chip in the blade that had to be honed out and there was some significant staining along the edge I was afraid might have been due to cel rot.

I got most of the stain off the blade, but I think you can see there is still some there under the etching. I left it so that the etching would be undisturbed.

After removing the chip, the blade is a tad under 5/8 now.

That rubber thingy constantly leaves a brown stain on the scales that cleans up with toothpaste and a soft toothbrush, but it is a pain and I wish it weren’t there, but it is part of the design of the razor so I’ll live with it.

I find it holds it’s edge pretty well. I do refresh the edge every few shaves using CrOx on balsa. Most of my blades get that treatment. If I were more OCD about honing, I might go to the stones more often, but I am more of a pragmatic honer and just want a nice shave.

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Over the years different brands seem to attain this exalted status then fade. Duble Duck, Puma just to name two.

I had plenty of both. It's not that they were any "better" than plenty of other razors but from my vantage point they just seemed to be consistent. They always seemed to give great shaves, hold an edge for a very long time and seemed to hone up with ease. Maybe they are in the "Urban Myth" category and maybe it's good they have lost their luster.

Of course maybe others have just taken their place. At one time you had to give away W&B Razors now many of them cost a mint. Old English wedges too.

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. Very much what I was hoping for. The history of all this, and places like Solingen (and Sheffield for that matter) are very interesting to me. I think it is why I have relatively few modern razors. There are certainly good ones, but I think shaving with a piece of history and getting an excellent shave in the bargain just adds an extra intangible for me.

BobH, thanks for the tip about oiling under the rubber tang grip. I have a small plastic oil bottle with a long steel needle tip which should do the trick.

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Originally Posted by FatboySlim

BobH, thanks for the tip about oiling under the rubber tang grip. I have a small plastic oil bottle with a long steel needle tip which should do the trick.

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You are welcome but to be fair I think Robin mentioned it first in a prior post.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

You are welcome but to be fair I think Robin mentioned it first in a prior post.

Bob

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Yes, good catch. Thank you RobinK for the tip about rust. And your informative and common-sense reply from a local, on-the-ground perspective.

I do tend to view these tools as objects of art. Razors and (and maybe firearms too) can be used as 3D steel maps or sculptures of technology over the past 200+ years. They were built as tools to do a job, but also came to symbolize the era and country they came from. Mechanical watches have a similar vibe in that they are just tools, but very personal, and incorporate a lot of period technology and style in doing their job.

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Originally Posted by Badgister

...
So to answer your question, "Are there Solingen brands that are well-respected by everybody, including the old hands from Solingen? "

Yes, one that comes to mind is Bergfeld and Sohn. They made Globusmen and Sahara " Camel rider " razors. They are hard to find in mint condition, but they are a fine example of Solingen razor craftmanship...

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Well it isn't mint and has honest wear (not abuse or corrosion), but I did manage to snag a Bergfeld & Sohn Gloubusmen in 6/8ths off eBay in pretty good shape, thanks for the tip! :beer1:

I haven't honed or shaved with it yet, but it arrived pretty much shave ready and popping arm hair, without even being listed as shave ready. Very hollow ground, as is apparent from the last photo in the series below. It has wear but appears to have been lovingly cared for, and has a certain heft and gravity about it when I pick it up and inspect it, a serious piece. Hard to resist a 3-pin Solingen razor that has been used but well cared for.

It seems it will only require a good cleaning and final touch up on finishing hones before I shave with it, but I will post a review when I shave with it. There were only two on eBay when I did a search, and the other was actually the identical model but in much rougher shape with a lot of corrosion, so I feel I really lucked out on this one.

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Congrats on your new razor. Looks like you bought this one : https://ebay.us/3sU130

The seller who appears to be a professional seller mentions it as shave ready both in the item title and description, so I would at the very least hope it pops arm hair.

FYI, this model you purchased comes originally with a gold etch on the blade. My guess is that the seller already did a serious sanding job on this razor. So I don't see how a further cleaning would make much of a difference.

I'm not sure what the old hands of Solingen think,

I do however have opinions about certain brands that are highly regarded on the forums that I've come to dislike and will never buy again, yet those razors demand serious premium prices.
I've had 3 razors by a certain make that all had a bit of a warp in the edge / blade (This was on a couple of NOS blades). I've also had some without by them, so yeah.

Aside from those all my vintage Solingen blades are well made and shave and hone up really well. I'm not a brand man, but call me a fan of Solingen and Eskilstuna make blades in general, again not all are without issues.
I tend to favor the ones that aren't highly sought after, but thats just me, with the exception of Henckels, I like my really old Henckels.

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Originally Posted by Badgister

FYI, this model you purchased comes originally with a gold etch on the blade. My guess is that the seller already did a serious sanding job on this razor. So I don't see how a further cleaning would make much of a difference.

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Neither do I.

https://media.nassrasur.com/data/med...g/4160cb1f.jpg

But Bergfeld & Sohn made nice razors. That said, someone in a German forum made a joke (yes, Germans and humour don't mix) about another one of their brands being super special, and immediately afterwards, their prices on eBay went through the roof because US buyers... well...

Oh, and their razors and razorblades were bigly popular under National Socialist rule. Here's one of their ads from the time - very supportive of the state...

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Well, there probably weren't too many Solingen makers who did not have some sort of contract to produce for the National Socialist government at that time.

Bob

Well, they didn't go full Louis Perlmann, but that advertisement is quite something.

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Originally Posted by Badgister

Congrats on your new razor. Looks like you bought this one : https://ebay.us/3sU130

The seller who appears to be a professional seller mentions it as shave ready both in the item title and description, so I would at the very least hope it pops arm hair.

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I stand corrected. I must have mistaken it for one of the other razors I've bought recently that weren't listed as shave ready. I've been on a buying jag lately.

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Originally Posted by Badgister

FYI, this model you purchased comes originally with a gold etch on the blade. My guess is that the seller already did a serious sanding job on this razor. So I don't see how a further cleaning would make much of a difference.

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Thank you for pointing out all the issues.

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Originally Posted by RobinK

...Oh, and their razors and razorblades were bigly popular under National Socialist rule. Here's one of their ads from the time - very supportive of the state...

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Sorry, was this really necessary? It was apropos of nothing in the discussion; I was just shopping for and posting a Solingen-made straight razor, not National Socialist memorabilia. It's completely off topic, as stack ranking German companies who shilled for the National Socialists and those who very actively facilitated and participated in their crimes is almost endless and a discussion for a different forum entirely. I was just trying to talk about a razor. On a razor forum.

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Originally Posted by FatboySlim

Sorry, was this really necessary?

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That depends on your definition of necessary, I think.

Further up in this thread you mentioned your interest in Solingen. Well, that piece of its history is part of the deal.

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Originally Posted by FatboySlim

It's completely off topic, as stack ranking German companies who shilled for the National Socialists and those who very actively facilitated and participated in their crimes is almost endless and a discussion for a different forum entirely.

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You seem to have researched the issue thoroughly. And come up with information I've not come across before. Granted, I've only lived in the area for a few decades, and have a stack of contemporary books about Solingen and its knife makers, including ones with hundreds of contemporary advertisements that contain no "shilling", but I'm sure you'll be delighted to share your sources.

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Originally Posted by FatboySlim

I was just trying to talk about a razor. On a razor forum.

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And you succeeded. We're talking.

As an aside, Badgister mentioned the Camel Rider brand. That's actually the brand about which the aforementioned joke was made. They were not produced for the Shah of Persia. But some people believed that and paid completely insane prices.

So there. That's your background info. You may decide to ignore it, but it's accurate.

Have a great weekend,
Robin

Good looking razor. IMO a lot of razors out there were contract manufactured. From Germany, to Japan, to England. You can find razors that seem incredibly similar in steel, design, and grind.

I try not to pay attention to brands anymore. Does it have a great grind and temper paired with a great steel, then it's a great razor.