Flea market find: W&B Masonic razor

Found a very cool razor yesterday; I hope it's useful as well. It's a Wade & Butcher with what appears to be gold Masonic symbols etched in all over the blade. One scale is cracked and poorly repaired, and the end wedge is missing. The blade itself is very nearly a straight wedge; if I put a straightedge alongside of it, I can see that there's just a hint of hollow to it. I have some questions about it:

1) The edge is curved, from about a 7/8 near the toe to maybe a bit under 6/8 at the heel. Is this the way the blade was made, or was it poorly honed in the past? Is this going to be a PIA to hone? (In other words, should I forget about ever shaving with it?)

2) I haven't polished the blade yet. Am I in danger of removing the gold from the etchings if I scrub some Flitz on it? How best should I clean it up, or should it be left alone?

3) Regarding new scales, I'm tempted to try my hand a making a pair (I have some black walnut that I've been waiting for a use for), but obviously it would be faster and easier (and more certain to get accomplished) if I just buy replacements from Classic (if they'll fit; the existing scales are 5" from pin to pin). Is there any collector/value concern over what it gets rescaled with that I should keep in mind? I at first thought these scales were plastic, but I'm starting to wonder if they might be bone.

4) Anything else I should know about this razor? Can it be used as a Ouija board? http://badgerandblade.com/vb/images/...s/rolleyes.gif

Oh, I paid $10 for this. Good deal?

The scales look like they could be horn. Are they translucent? Try putting a bright light behind the thin ends to see if light shines through. Horn also has a slight grain to it like a wood grain.

I can't tell what its going to be like to hone, but for $10, I'd say you did really well. Where is that flea market? :D

Jordan

Good find. not bad for 10 bucks

[quote=farace;134716]

3) Regarding new scales, I'm tempted to try my hand a making a pair (I have some black walnut that I've been waiting for a use for), but obviously it would be faster and easier (and more certain to get accomplished) if I just buy replacements from Classic (if they'll fit; the existing scales are 5" from pin to pin). Is there any collector/value concern over what it gets rescaled with that I should keep in mind? I at first thought these scales were plastic, but I'm starting to wonder if they might be bone.

Nice razor, and a great price!

My only comment would be about buying scales from Classic: I bought the Dovo, red, bone scales from them. I put them on a "Red Imp" of my Grandfather's. The original red scales were broken. I wanted to keep the "Red" scale look. Anyway, during my first shave after re-pinning, I notice the red dye was bleeding all over the place. Classic was willing to take them back, but I didn't want to send them back after the re-pin job. I sealed them with polyuethane - and they are now fine. I would not buy them again, though.

I, also, bought a pair of the Dovo Pakawood scales in blue from Classic. Absolutely junk! They were more of a light purple color(not blue by any means) and very faded at the curves of the wood. - very poor quality.

There are not a lot of people out there selling scales. Bill Ellis @ www.billysblades.com would be a good choice to buy scales only. Everything that man does is great! Otherwise, try making yer own. I will eventually.

Another choice is to hit Ebay - I look for cheap, rusted blades that have exotice looking scales - and buy them only for the intention of breaking them down and putting the scales on a good blade that has poor or broken scales. This has worked pretty good for me. Unfortunatly, I have banned myself from Ebay at this time. My RAD has gotten way out of hand and I need to put a stop to it. Oh, well! :cry:

Regards,

Steve

MAAS and Flitz will de-gold! Use at your own risk / discretion. Even without the gold, I think the etch will be there in silver frosting - but I can't be certain, really

$10 - you should be in jail for this steal! Is someone knocking on the door?

Cheers
Ivo

The fact that it is thinner in the back than the front is most likely due to uneven honing (that's no too uncommon from what I've seen either). For $10, you did very well. I'm not sure if some of these particualr razors came with a square point, or if the barber notch has been removed from yours (is there any kind of beveling at the end, or does it just look like it was cut straight down?).

Polishing will most likely ruin the goldwash within the symbols, but may keep the symbols on the blade if the etching is deep enough. I'd recommend restoring the original scales -- if they are indeed horn. Otherwise, the walnut handles sound very good (why bother with plastic on this beauty?).

There's no reason you can't shave with it. In fact, you could have it re-ground torestore the entire wedge profile (just like a brand new razor), but it will definitely destory the etching on the blade.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll avoid both the Flitz (at least near the etching) and the Dovo scales for this razor. The etching would indeed remain, but of course I'd prefer to keep the gold in place.

Jordan, that flea market is in Clinton, Connecticut near the Westbrook town line. It's a rather small flea market on Sundays only, and there weren't many vendors yesterday, so I almost didn't bother going!

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Originally Posted by xChris

I'm not sure if some of these particualr razors came with a square point, or if the barber notch has been removed from yours (is there any kind of beveling at the end, or does it just look like it was cut straight down?).

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I'm at work and don't have the razor in front of me, but I saw no evidence of there having been a notch.

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Originally Posted by xChris

I'd recommend restoring the original scales -- if they are indeed horn.

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How does one go about restoring a broken horn scale? I would imagine I'd have to try to rebreak the poorly lined-up glue joint and try to do a better job matching the pieces up than the previous owner did. I guess I have nothing to lose if I try, since I planned to rescale it anyway!

My bad -- I read over your statement about the damage. So it will be more difficult than I thought. Yeah, you'de have to try to figure out how to re-break the joint (probably impossible without detroying the scales further). Then find a suitable replacement wedge from a donor/scrap or making from new stock (e.g., plexiglas, etc.).

So, I guess you're gonna be making new scales, huh? :D

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Originally Posted by xChris

The fact that it is thinner in the back than the front is most likely due to uneven honing ...

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I am pretty sure that some W&B (as well as other similar old English brands) had models come like this NOS and this the design

Cheers
Ivo

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Originally Posted by xChris

My bad -- I read over your statement about the damage. So it will be more difficult than I thought. Yeah, you'de have to try to figure out how to re-break the joint (probably impossible without detroying the scales further). Then find a suitable replacement wedge from a donor/scrap or making from new stock (e.g., plexiglas, etc.).

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The picture doesn't show the break very well, but you can see it at the wedge end if you look closely. I guess it won't hurt to try to repair it, but I won't expect much.

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Originally Posted by xChris

So, I guess you're gonna be making new scales, huh? :D

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Yup!

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Originally Posted by izlat

I am pretty sure that some W&B (as well as other similar old English brands) had models come like this NOS and this the design

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I agree. I have a "Fine India Steel" W&B of the same shape and it shows essentially no hone wear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by izlat

I am pretty sure that some W&B (as well as other similar old English brands) had models come like this NOS and this the design

Cheers
Ivo

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SteveS

I agree. I have a "Fine India Steel" W&B of the same shape and it shows essentially no hone wear.

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Good to know -- thanks! I don't think I've ever seen an untouched W&B, so my experience is obviously skewed.

Shoot me an email if ya want to get rid of it and let me know how much.

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Originally Posted by farace

Found a very cool razor yesterday; I hope it's useful as well. It's a Wade & Butcher with what appears to be gold Masonic symbols etched in all over the blade. One scale is cracked and poorly repaired, and the end wedge is missing. The blade itself is very nearly a straight wedge; if I put a straightedge alongside of it, I can see that there's just a hint of hollow to it. I have some questions about it:

1) The edge is curved, from about a 7/8 near the toe to maybe a bit under 6/8 at the heel. Is this the way the blade was made, or was it poorly honed in the past? Is this going to be a PIA to hone? (In other words, should I forget about ever shaving with it?)

This is a very typical profile for the square point W&B's without Sheffield notch. They veer to an almost oblique point sometimes. The narrowing of the blade towards the heel is not the result of poor honing, they are made that way - I've seen quite a few like this. They are not too bad to hone up but I would tape the spine on this one to protect the etchings.

2) I haven't polished the blade yet. Am I in danger of removing the gold from the etchings if I scrub some Flitz on it? How best should I clean it up, or should it be left alone?

Leave it alone!

3) Regarding new scales, I'm tempted to try my hand a making a pair (I have some black walnut that I've been waiting for a use for), but obviously it would be faster and easier (and more certain to get accomplished) if I just buy replacements from Classic (if they'll fit; the existing scales are 5" from pin to pin). Is there any collector/value concern over what it gets rescaled with that I should keep in mind? I at first thought these scales were plastic, but I'm starting to wonder if they might be bone.

Almost certainly they are horn.

4) Anything else I should know about this razor? Can it be used as a Ouija board? http://badgerandblade.com/vb/images/...s/rolleyes.gif

Don't know about the Ouija board but W&B made lots of these for lodges all over the place and of course for anyone who wanted a fancy razor. You're VERY lucky toi have the gold wash intact!

Oh, I paid $10 for this. Good deal?

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You paid far too much for it but I will give you $12 and a Herschey bar for it if you like! I might even just stretch to $100 - that's what it's worth I reckon.

I think you got a great buy!!!
I saw one of those at a flea market that was in excellent shape but the vendor wanted $200 and would not budge. I passed.

I have a blade that has the same etching, but it's extremely faded. I had assumed it was masonic, but couldn't tell fore sure. But looking closely at my razor and that picture, I can see that it is the exact etching. What are the odds? Many thanks for happening to throw that picture up.

need a matching shavingbowl?

Marktplaats.nl > Vrijmetselarij - scheerkom - Verzamelen - Verzamelingen en Collecties

Gotta love these resurections of year old threads :)

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Originally Posted by blueprinciple

You paid far too much for it but I will give you $12 and a Herschey bar for it if you like! I might even just stretch to $100 - that's what it's worth I reckon.

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Nope, don't fall for it, he's trying to shortchange you here - it's got to be fried mars bar :)

I guess this is the best masonic w&b I've seen, you guys are in luck it's not mine, or I'd just toss it out there and watch you kill each other :)

I would love to get a hold of one of these masonic razors. WE maybe one day.

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Originally Posted by farace

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll avoid both the Flitz (at least near the etching) and the Dovo scales for this razor. The etching would indeed remain, but of course I'd prefer to keep the gold in place.

Jordan, that flea market is in Clinton, Connecticut near the Westbrook town line. It's a rather small flea market on Sundays only, and there weren't many vendors yesterday, so I almost didn't bother going!

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Could you give the street it is on. I may have to take a ride to clinton.:D

I have one of these also. Mine is a little different though, its not nearly as pretty as yours. It's not in black and gold. It just has the etchings. Mine is about 100 years old. After my grandfather passed it was just one of the little treasures I found in his house.

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Originally Posted by gugi

Gotta love these resurections of year old threads :)

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Yup! Maybe we should start a new social group: "The NecroPosters"

By the way farace, I'll give you $15 for it!

I was doing research on Masonic razors after having won one on ebay, turns out I won this very razor. Interesting how these things work out. He made 5 times his money back!
Depending on the broken scale deal, I might just get it rescaled. of course the only option is horn, IMO.

Interestingly I came across this yesterday and recognised the masonic symbology. Looks like the same image as on yours but the maker is Joseph Elliot.

FS: Joseph Elliot's "Best Silver Steel" Straight Razor Wedge - Badger & Blade

Which companies have made Masonic blades and are they quality. As a brother of the craft I would be interested in attaining one at some point.

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Originally Posted by jcsixx

Which companies have made Masonic blades and are they quality. As a brother of the craft I would be interested in attaining one at some point.

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I think either they were made by W&B themselves (which I doubt) or they were customized on request, either by W&B or a skilled worker. Generally, only people who don't know what it is worth would sell one. They are highly sought after.