Hi! I wonder why very old razors had such wedges in their scales.Attachment 330742
Printable View
Hi! I wonder why very old razors had such wedges in their scales.Attachment 330742
Good question but anyone that knew why is now long dead.
Bob
Just guessing.
Weight, balance, save material.
Hope we get an accurate answer.
Is it lead?
If so, it might be a metal conserving trick.
I can't say for sure. Rather, it is tin.
Could be it was a scrap piece, that was used. (Was something else, before becoming a wedge)
Ive read of keys being used before. Not that it looks like a key. Hard to say for sure.
A tin key? Unlikely. The balance, too. Too light weight compared to the blade. Saving material? Possible. Perhaps the cost of tin was high. On the other hand, if tin was very expensive, they would make wedges of a different material.
My guess is that they could pass a rectangular piece of steel through the hole to give the wedge stability while filing.
Pete <:-}
Maybe it was good business to make more wedges for less lead.
I think we are all wrong :(
Reduce weight and save material if cast could be cheaper, also could help add grip to the scales to prevent spinning with less pressure required, reducing risk of scales cracking etc
All theories all who know are probably long gone
What do you think, until what years was such a wedge used? 1820?
And since when did they start making such wedges?
What are the scales made from? Are you sure it is tin?
If the scales were an exotic material, like tortoise the wedge could be silver, and cast to minimize silver and still provide the required support.
Silver was often use for embellishments, inlays, cartouches/shields, collars and bolsters on quality, presentation razors.
You might test the metal with a gold/silver tester. I have not seen that on any lead wedges, nor wedges made of tin. Might be easier to date the razor and scales.
No, no, no exotic stuff: horn and tin. Such wedges with a window are not an isolated case. They are found in stub tail razors.
As I could tell from the reactions of the other participants in this conversation, they also encountered such wedges.
Good question
Was it done on purpose?
(easier work-ability & shaping, weight saving for better balance, material savings to lower the cost, etc.)
or was it a coincidence / a convenience (did they have something lying around and used that, recycling of something, etc.)
Apparently, this risks remaining a mystery).
In razors of 1840-50 years, I definitely did not meet such wedges.
Either tin has fallen in price, or the balance sheet has become irrelevant, or the waste from other tin products has ended...
I think they coincide with the "Old English" stamp ..1820-1825.. I have a few spare, all made of lead.
I recently restored one that had a series of holes in the wedge, but I've not come across one like the one posted...yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by esveka
Attachment 330789
I think in the (horn) process, the scales were warm as-pinned on the bottom.
The holes and recesses took some scale material and made for a tight and even fitment.
Was the idea to keep the wedge from moving?
In the case of bone or ivory, likely the same reason as less metal to compress made for a tight, even, and lasting job.
The holes look like they were pierced with an awl. In this case, the version of saving or reducing weight looks unconvincing. But if this was done to ensure that the wedges did not turn between the scales, then this should work.Quote:
Originally Posted by outback
PS. Beautyfull razor!
Here's one I have. Pretty much like the OP's.
Attachment 330815
This sort of goes against your post about hot pressing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Hot pressing them and then if they deformed enough to use the hole in the wedge the outside would maybe have to be reshaped.
With that much work done to the scale I wouldn't want them to deform in pinning.
That one is screaming out for a restoration...Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
I'm thinking like Pete now, it is something to do with the manufacturing process...
No, I didn't say hot-pressing them. I suggested warm. Anyway, the benefit is friction. Keeping the wedge in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Anyone ever seen an oldie with another pin, hidden by a large collar? Same idea.
Yes. Lots of tiny screams were heard as I rummaged through the draw in search of it! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
Not unlikely. The answer is ,"no"Quote:
Originally Posted by esveka
I had thought that those extra tack's were a way to set a bent razor to close in the middle before pinning the wedge end and even maybe before drilling the wedge pin holes... Another mystery .Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
For the archive's.
Attachment 330916
A good archive!
Today i disassembled some old razors and came across these two mystery hole wedges.
Attachment 333809
Attachment 333810
Mass produced wedges designed to fit different pinning configurations?
Those holes look like they could accommodate 2 different single pin positions and one double pin.
If we knew the manufacturing process i think that would shed some light.
Some info about wedges:
They're made of tin, just like most of the simple decorative elements pressed into the scales. Into the early 1900's, the workmen called them 'tins'.
They weren't really much in use before the tail end of the 18th century.
The earliest ones mostly have either three holes arranged around the central hole or a cutout. Some have a second pin hidden beneath the washer (well, more of a wire, since it's even thinner than 1/16th).
As near as I can tell, the practice was abandoned by the early 1820's.
Why was it done? Who knows. I don't think tin was so precious that it was to save material. It's doubtful it was to reduce weight or change the balance because the difference, especially with the 3-hole versions, is minuscule. The tapered wedge shape does the work of keeping it in place during fitment.
It may have had something to do with how they were cast in a mold. It may have been superstition, or tools from another discipline repurposed. Maybe it was just how the first guy who did it went about it and everyone else copied it. Unfortunately, without supporting documentation, there's just no way to know.
One way to know wedges and a lot of the decoration put into scales is tin is that on the scale decor, it's pretty common to come across examples of tin pest (which is when tin begins to irrevocably convert from the stable allotype to a super-fragile allotype that swells up and cracks.
Superstition did cross my mind.
Thanks.
Working on this cute little number today. The holes look like they were punched out.. I have to conclude that the missing parts are to help with cracking & Swelling as mentioned by Zack..
The maker of this razor may never be known. It show an "H" and then a faint "A" with "Warranted" underneath. There are many makers surnames starting with HA . I do sometimes find early makes using just a surname whereas later in time, perhaps once more established they used their first names also..
Attachment 336357
Attachment 336358
Attachment 336359
it could be lead used to make washers and then recycled into spacers. (to make the washers a lead bed is used on which the brass or nikelsilver sheet rests and then with a hammer blow on the punch you get the rounded washer)Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
The holes are too orderly imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by altus
The cost issue is to cheap for me to believe.
Most of it from what i see is the cost of paint.
The tarrif of 1816 put the added cost of lead to 3 cents a pound in 1820.
That helped a lot of Badgers from Wisconsin. :D
Maybe some were recycled or made into washers.
However I have seen some with very small pinholes which maybe could only be for swelling issues.
