Ludwig van Beethoven’s Straight Razor and Honing Stone

Born December 1770, Ludwig van Beethoven grew up in the german city of Bonn and lived there until the age of 22, when he moved to Vienna.
His Birthplace, the house Bonngasse 20, still exists and is set up as a museum to document the life and work of Ludwig van Beethoven. Beside exceptional pieces from his activities as composer and musician also objects from his everyday life are shown.
And among these artifacts you will find his razor and honing stone.

Attachment 332384
Source: Beethoven-Haus Bonn
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...dokid/bi:i3596

So the razor is a typical Sheffield style razor from the late 18th century. You can read Acier Fondu on the tang as well as on the side of the spine. The scales are made from tortoise shell.

Attachment 332385
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...dokid/bi:i3231

On the tang you can also identify an O and L and an undistinct symbol above the Letters. So according to Lummus/ Old Sheffield Razors the razor could be most probably a John Sheppard of Sheffield. Sheppard made razors with the brandmark WOLF from which you can see only the O and L left on Beethovens razor. Above the letters WOLF there was a crown stamped and this is maybe what you can also identify with some phantasy on Beethovens example. The production of John Sheppard razors and the useage of the term Acier Fondu – would date the razor somehow between 1772 and 1795.
There are several examples of Wolf Sheppard razors shown at SRP - i.e. here :
https://sharprazorpalace.com/custom-...l-restore.html

On the digital library of the Beethoven museum Bonn you can also find a picture of the razor case:

Attachment 332386
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...dokid/bi:i4110

On the Case you see the letters AMH and a symbol in two pieces that reminds on a spur - if seen together. Think I have seen that before but could not recall where and to which company that belonged. Maybe someone can help. Isn’t necessarily the original case that fits to the razor.

On the first picture you can also see a honing stone. You will find some more detailed photos on the museum webside.

Attachment 332387
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...okid/bi:i10051

The stone clearly looks like a slate hone and is widely used.
So I think we can assume with a certain probality that Ludwig van Beethoven shaved himself with a straight razor and that he also even honed his own razor!
On all the paintings and portraits of Beethoven present on the web, you will ever see a well shaved man and gentleman.


So I wish to thank the Beethoven-Haus Bonn for the permit to post the pictures of Beethovens artefacts here at SRP!
And for those here who are also lovers of the great masters in classic music and interested in their history – dive into the virtual exhibition at the Beethoven House here:

https://artsandculture.google.com/story/sgUxwaPfk1_wYw

and have a look at the single artefacts here:

https://www.beethoven.de/en


Regards Peter

Thanks for sharing, very interesting!

Thank you for sharing Peter. The exhibition website is excellent. Beethoven is my favourite composer.

Going to have listen to a bit of the old Ludwig Van while shaving my litso and gulliver with my Britva.

Great information. What do you think: did he use a Thuringian?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kees

Great information. What do you think: did he use a Thuringian?

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Possibly,
I have a Thuringer stone that is on par with my Eschers that had the same view from the side before lapping than the one pictured; my Eschers looked different on the sides though. Possibly different era mining, cutting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kees

Great information. What do you think: did he use a Thuringian?

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Well of course I looked to the stone very careful. And it is surely slate. From the time frame that would also fit since the first quarry for Thuringian slate waterhones opend in 1808. And at the beginning the hones didn't had standard sizes.

Well they mention on their webside -in the description of the razor- that the stone is still stored in the museum safe – and that only one out of two is left. So there have been two stones and indeed the foto I shared doesn’t show one stone from both sides as I thought, but two stones from one side. So here is the other photo that shows the other side of both:

Attachment 332393
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...okid/bi:i10051

Well maybe I should think about asking the people at the museum, if I can have a look at the stone personally. Maybe there is a possibility after Corona has gone. It is about one and a half our drive from my hometown though…….

Regards Peter

As always Peter, awesome to read your post...i really like the History behind it

Good show, Peter! The links were most enjoyable as well.

Great thread and Beethoven just had a birthday a few days ago.

Great Thread, dedicated to an incomparable Genius!

Thank you very much! :bow :bow :bow

This is fascinating to me as a classical music composer/performer by profession. Especially because I'm thinking of buying a new straight. I will now consider tortoise shell for the scales!
Thanks for sharing.
July10newbie

Make sure you do not buy illegal tortoise shell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by July10newbie

This is fascinating to me as a classical music composer/performer by profession. Especially because I'm thinking of buying a new straight. I will now consider tortoise shell for the scales!
Thanks for sharing.
July10newbie

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Tortoies are a protected species and the sale and purchase of real tortoise shell is illegal. You'll have settle for faux tortoise shell scales which are still pretty nice looking.

Bob

OK. Thanks BobH and Kees for the info. What other types of non faux horn or natural animal scales are available?

There is a very real looking synthetic ivory and some of the guys here have used imitation mother of pearl and abalone. These tend to be available from knife making suppliers. Hard to find in lengths greater than 5”.

If you want non faux materials, check out the handle materials available at one of those vendors. You’ll need 6” length for razor scales.

What size do you think Beethoven's razor is? 4/8, 5/8 or 6/8?

I look forward to your replies as I want to get a razor similar to his. I found one: https://rasiermesser-manufaktur.de/e...-spanish-crown

This is why I think it's similar to Herr Beethoven's razor.
1. Made in Germany
2. Horn scale is authentic as Beethoven had authentic tortoise.
3. All silver blade
4. Multi color horn, multi color tortoise shell.
5. slightly Spanish point on Beethoven's. Do you agree with this point?

It's sentimental to me to get a razor of great resemblance to Beethoven's because I'm a classical music composer and have a bust of him over my work area.

Well July,

there is nothing to say against Ralf Aust razors. He is one of the last real razor grinders in Germany and his razors are absolut top quality.
But you cannot compare the modern razors to the ancient ones. Beethovens razor was produced in Sheffileld at a time where the cutlers in Solingen didn't even think about razor manufactoring. Horn scales ar good and could maybe serve as a replacement for Tourtoise - ol. Beethovens razor has more a square than a spanish point. Beethofens razor might be somehow around 5/8 in the median as seen in the picture, but started maybe as a 6/8.

But anyhow - a vintage razor is a vintage and cannot be replaced with a modern in terms of meaning, history - whatever. It is a total different feeling shaving with a real ancient razor.
So if you are looking for something comparable you should search for a real vintage razor. They appear here and there on the net, not very often though. But with a little patience you should be able to grab one.

If you are only looking for a straight to get a good shave and have a quality product - Ralf Aust is a real good choice.

Regards Peter

Hello Peter,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply which answered all my questions. Your website is very impressive and since you are an expert I'd like to ask you some questions if that's ok.

I may now consider having three straights: my original Ralf Aust with plastic scales which I want to upgrade to a more elegant razor, the Ralf Aust horn scale which you saw via the link I sent, and a vintage razor. I'm probably going to get the horn one now and take my time researching a vintage.

How is the shave different with a vintage vs. a modern razor? Is the shave quality just as close and good? Or is it just the idea of shaving with an antique razor with old fashioned craftsmanship the main benefit?

Does a 6/8 shave feel similar to a 5/8? I've had my first twenty or so shaves with my Ralf Aust plastic scale 5/8 rounded point. I haven't tried a 6/8 or other points. What do you recommend for a beginner or something I can grow into? I already have a 5/8 rounded point. Perhaps my Aust horn razor should be a 6/8 Spanish point. What do you say?


Regarding honing:

Since that is also your expertise and I'm a total beginner with zero experience I wonder what is your opinion of the video below if you have a chance to look at it? I bought two stones recommended in this video from YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXVW_S6VaBw

I look forward to your reply.
Best,
July

...........................Attachment 333667

Dr Matt is persona non grata round here, or at least his video's and methods are very unpopular. I asked about one of his ideas once, and the fury of the gods was visited upon me.

My advice, now I've been shaving and honing for a couple of minutes would be to forget Dr Matt and watch some of gssixgun's videos.

Not only does he really know what he's talking about but his videos are very easy to understand and he's actually here on the forum to answer any questions you have.

If you really want a two stone honing system, I'm sure the guys here can point to good ones but you can buy a whole Norton progression pretty inexpensively.

If you are going to take the advice of Dr Matt (I'm sure he's a really nice guy), be careful and take his advice with a pinch of salt because he does have some pretty unorthodox and generally frowned upon ideas. He pointed out that you don't have to set the bevel a lot, sort of one and done.

He is not necessarily wrong but I do set my bevels every time, not because I need to but because it is so very important that a person learns to do it if they want to hone. I set a bevel at every chance I get simply to learn and improve and practice. I highly recommend learning to set a good bevel because it is the most important part of being able to hone and you can rub away until either you run out of razor or stone but if your bevel needed to be set for some reason and you didn't do it, that razor will never become shave ready.

JMHO

I can hear the sirens already. You mentioned "he who's name shall not be mentioned." :nono: :rofl2:

Honestly I only known him by the trail of scorched earth that follows behind the mention of him but you might as well bring up Satan himself around these here parts.

Can anyone please provide links on honing for beginners and which stones to buy for maintenance and honing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by July10newbie

Can anyone please provide links on honing for beginners and which stones to buy for maintenance and honing?

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PM sent as I think this goes too much off topic now for this thread!

Regards Peter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hatzicho

Born December 1770, Ludwig van Beethoven grew up in the german city of Bonn and lived there until the age of 22, when he moved to Vienna.
His Birthplace, the house Bonngasse 20, still exists and is set up as a museum to document the life and work of Ludwig van Beethoven. Beside exceptional pieces from his activities as composer and musician also objects from his everyday life are shown.
And among these artifacts you will find his razor and honing stone.

Attachment 332384
Source: Beethoven-Haus Bonn
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...dokid/bi:i3596

So the razor is a typical Sheffield style razor from the late 18th century. You can read Acier Fondu on the tang as well as on the side of the spine. The scales are made from tortoise shell.

Attachment 332385
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...dokid/bi:i3231

On the tang you can also identify an O and L and an undistinct symbol above the Letters. So according to Lummus/ Old Sheffield Razors the razor could be most probably a John Sheppard of Sheffield. Sheppard made razors with the brandmark WOLF from which you can see only the O and L left on Beethovens razor. Above the letters WOLF there was a crown stamped and this is maybe what you can also identify with some phantasy on Beethovens example. The production of John Sheppard razors and the useage of the term Acier Fondu – would date the razor somehow between 1772 and 1795.
There are several examples of Wolf Sheppard razors shown at SRP - i.e. here :
https://sharprazorpalace.com/custom-...l-restore.html

On the digital library of the Beethoven museum Bonn you can also find a picture of the razor case:

Attachment 332386
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...dokid/bi:i4110

On the Case you see the letters AMH and a symbol in two pieces that reminds on a spur - if seen together. Think I have seen that before but could not recall where and to which company that belonged. Maybe someone can help. Isn’t necessarily the original case that fits to the razor.

On the first picture you can also see a honing stone. You will find some more detailed photos on the museum webside.

Attachment 332387
https://www.beethoven.de/sixcms/deta...okid/bi:i10051

The stone clearly looks like a slate hone and is widely used.
So I think we can assume with a certain probality that Ludwig van Beethoven shaved himself with a straight razor and that he also even honed his own razor!
On all the paintings and portraits of Beethoven present on the web, you will ever see a well shaved man and gentleman.


So I wish to thank the Beethoven-Haus Bonn for the permit to post the pictures of Beethovens artefacts here at SRP!
And for those here who are also lovers of the great masters in classic music and interested in their history – dive into the virtual exhibition at the Beethoven House here:

https://artsandculture.google.com/story/sgUxwaPfk1_wYw

and have a look at the single artefacts here:

https://www.beethoven.de/en


Regards Peter

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If LvB did indeed hone his own razor as shown, it appears that he did a great job of maintaining its shape. Thanks for posting. Just now reading it for the first time. The stone format seems to be fairly long and narrow. What can we estimate here, maybe 4cm x 20cm? Also, the razor looks like some kind of early 19th-century hollow ground. How prevalent were Sheffield hollow grounds at this time, or during the late 18th century as mentioned?

Well the stone is a little longer than the razor handle and the open box, so I would estiate around 18 x 3.5 (looks a bit more narrow than a typical 7'').

As for the hollow ground, well the old blades were hollow ground to a certain extent (12-15'' wheels) and blades with a pronounced/shouldered spine have been set in quite a bit.
You can find a description in Holzapfel here, with a sketch on page 1148:

https://books.google.de/books?id=fDQ...page&q&f=false

So on the first picture the razor looks maybe a bit more hollow as it is, because of the shadows. But if you look at the second picture you can see that the line of the point is nearly straight, so the hollow can't be that much actually.

Regards Peter

Thanks. An approximate proportion of 5 to 1 with the stone in either case. I'd have to see a better image resolution, but it looks like a fair amount of bevel wear, possibly corresponding to spine wear, in Beethoven's razor example. Don't see that in the second example. I'm always curious about how full wedges were honed back in the day. Spine-lifted, as in sharpening a knife? And with mildly-ground hollows like these, were they honed with spine and edge on the stone as a built-in angle guide, like modern hollow grounds?

Well also the honing is widely explained in Holtzapffels description on the following pages.
But I don't think that the people really spent much time and had the routine to hone the razors properly like we do today.

The basic geometry of this very old razors is also different. The spine of modern razors is constant in thickness. If also the lower part and edge of the razor is ground properly and even in thickness and the width of the blade is constant, that secures, that you can hone the razor properly over the hole length if you lay it flat on the hone.

But thickness of the spine of these old razors mostly varies. They are getting thinner from point to tang. That means if you really lay it flat on the hone the angle of the cutting edge changes. To balance that a bit, the blades are getting generally wider to the point. But together with the fact, that you had mostly very narrow hones at that time, the honing wasn't equal over the total length of the blade, which led to uneven honewear. And that is why you see a most of the ancient razors having a lot of hone wear at the beginning of the edge near the tang. At this point the spine is substantially thinner than at the point.

Regards Peter

Thank you for your informative descriptions, and for referring me to the passage on honing in Holzappfel's treatise. On page 1153, I read the following: "The blade is grasped in the right hand by its tang, and near to the cutting part, and is placed square across one end of the stone but tilted about ten or twenty degrees, and is then swept forward along the stone, edge foremost in a circular arc, so as to act on the entire edge; . . ." This "tilting" I take to be a lifting of the spine.

A rolling x-stroke, dem guys knew what was up.

I see. That could account for the narrow hone too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by July10newbie

Can anyone please provide links on honing for beginners and which stones to buy for maintenance and honing?

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Do a search for honing.
There are hundreds of threads on stones.

Your first decision is whether you want to use natural or synthetics.

Watch gssixgun videos on honing.

Hi Peter, Many thanks for posting that, very interesting to see. Highly unusual to see Acier Fondu stamped twice on the same blade, and I would have to tentatively agree with you on the WOLF mark, though it's hard to say. Are you based in the Rheinland? Gruß aus Münster.

That was cool.