Thinnest razor in production right now?

So, I've been reading and exchanging knowledge on razors with some other straight razor shavers.

We've so far discussed on the ground, and it seems that modern-production razors are not as ground (or "thin") as some vintage razors. I've been told that even modern day (i.e. current production) "singing" TIs and DOVOs are actually closer to a "half hollow" and that the "extra hollow" or "singing hollow" titles are only marketing.

Is this true?

I don't have a lot of knowledge on straight razors because I've never experienced shaving with a vintage razor. I've only had modern day DOVOs and Bokers, and I'd like to know if the vintage extra hollow stuff are actually thinner blades than modern day DOVOs, Bokers, TIs, etc.

I'd also like to know which is the thinnest razor in production right now? TI Evide Sonnant? DOVO Prima Klang?

Thanks for any info,
Kind regards,
Mike

How many razors a year do need to consider it a production razor?

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Originally Posted by 32t

How many razors a year do need to consider it a production razor?

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:O I think as long as it's not discontinued by the manufacturer. I'm just thinking about, which is the thinnest blade by either TI, Dovo, Wacker, or Boker, etc.

Thanks,
Mike

There is some makers producing some very fine grinds. I have not had a modern TI hollow blade, I do have a Dovo modern Bismarck, and it’s thin, I have had thinner vintage blades, but those were exceptional vintage blades. I have a lot of Henckels razors that run from definitely full hollow to quarter hollow depending on the model. I’d say those claims are not completely true, sort of a half truth

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Originally Posted by RezDog

There is some makers producing some very fine grinds. I have not had a modern TI hollow blade, I do have a Dovo modern Bismarck, and it’s thin, I have had thinner vintage blades, but those were exceptional vintage blades. I have a lot of Henckels razors that run from definitely full hollow to quarter hollow depending on the model. I’d say those claims are not completely true, sort of a half truth

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DOVO Bismarck, then? I think I'll add it to my shopping list. Maybe it's worth a try.

Anyway, how does it compare in shaving comfort vs vintage blades?

Thanks a lot,
Kind regards,
Mike

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Originally Posted by CoffeeAddict24

DOVO Bismarck, then? I think I'll add it to my shopping list. Maybe it's worth a try.

Anyway, how does it compare in shaving comfort vs vintage blades?

Thanks a lot



Kind regards,
Mike

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Modern holds no candle to vintage. The older the better, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by outback

Modern holds no candle to vintage. The older the better, IMHO.

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So I've read. But I think I'll stick to modern razors for a while. Later on I'd like to get either a Filarmonica or W&B.

Thank you,
Kind regards,
Mike

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Originally Posted by CoffeeAddict24

So I've read. But I think I'll stick to modern razors for a while. Later on I'd like to get either a Filarmonica or W&B.

Thank you,
Kind regards,
Mike

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That’s a wild spread. Filarmonica were very thin ground hollows and most of the Wade and butchers and very heavy grinds in comparison.
There are some very nice razors from about 1900 to 1950, and the early to mid 1800’s. There are some American makers that should not be overlooked if you are really grooving on finely ground hollows.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

That’s a wild spread. Filarmonica were very thin ground hollows and most of the Wade and butchers and very heavy grinds in comparison.
There are some very nice razors from about 1900 to 1950, and the early to mid 1800’s. There are some American makers that should not be overlooked if you are really grooving on finely ground hollows.

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Yeah, I know. Some online vendors have W&Bs here in Mexico. Filarmonicas seem to be hard to find.

Which American makers would you recommend? I know about Tim Zowada but I don't have too much info.

ERN had a very thin extra hollow also as did some other German cutlers like Henckels as Rezdog mentioned and also Boker. Remember though that the thinner they are the easier they are to either crack or chip and the chips on extra hollows can be quite large.
I think you'll find as time goes by that the thin-ness of the grind becomes less important to you than the shape and also the steel.

Don't forget the Dovo Bergischer Lowe which is/was a very fine grind and they also make/made a stainless with real pearl handles which has a very fine grind.

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Originally Posted by CoffeeAddict24

Yeah, I know. Some online vendors have W&Bs here in Mexico. Filarmonicas seem to be hard to find.

Which American makers would you recommend? I know about Tim Zowada but I don't have too much info.

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My choices for vintage American cutlers would be Shumate, Case, Robeson and anything made in Little Valley NY, Cattaraugus, George Korn, Union to name a few. Some really fine razors with arguably the best steel of the time came from that region.

Edit: for new stuff you'll be relegated to custom makers for things made in the US. If you could ever find it for sale (which you won't) I would get a Charlie Lewis original.

Bluesman also has some very nicely ground razors, for modern. I think Paul hit the theme of what I was suggesting for vintage American makers. There were many more though. There are threads around here dedicated to the early American blades.

Dovo are not the company they once were but some of the lower production manufacturers are still producing lovely grinds
Dovo Bergischer
Attachment 336435
Ralph Aust
Attachment 336436
Boker
Attachment 336437
Korrat produce beautiful full hollow bellied razors
Attachment 336438

Somehow my Bergischer Löwe looks less hollow ground.
Mine has "Made in Western Germany" on it. So it was made before or shortly after the Iron Curtain was pulled down.

If it’s a full hollow just by the nature it’s thin, but as for a Zowada razor he may now do full hollows but most of the custom makers are 1/4– 1/2 hollow guys. But if your willing to spend the dollars, some customs are great, my collection is 75% custom and I have a Zowada. I got a deal but it’s still close to 1k

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Originally Posted by RezDog

Bluesman also has some very nicely ground razors, for modern. I think Paul hit the theme of what I was suggesting for vintage American makers. There were many more though. There are threads around here dedicated to the early American blades.

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I was thinking of this when production razors was mentioned.

I am sure that Victor is under 5,000 razors a year. LOL

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Originally Posted by CoffeeAddict24

So, I've been reading and exchanging knowledge on razors with some other straight razor shavers.

We've so far discussed on the ground, and it seems that modern-production razors are not as ground (or "thin") as some vintage razors. I've been told that even modern day (i.e. current production) "singing" TIs and DOVOs are actually closer to a "half hollow" and that the "extra hollow" or "singing hollow" titles are only marketing.

Is this true?


I'd also like to know which is the thinnest razor in production right now? TI Evide Sonnant? DOVO Prima Klang?

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Unfortunately this is absolutely true. The real razor grinders that had mastered their handcraft belong to a dying species. The razors are not thin enough, the bellies and the area to the edge are wavy, thickness of spine is uneven. And this applies to most of the still existing companies. Forget the "evide sonnant" - absolutely nothing is singing on that razor. Thick as an axe - like my old master would say. Dovos are not much better nowadays. There are two companies in Solingen that still do the handcraft in the old way with experienced and skillfull grinders. Wacker and Revisor. If you order a full hollow razor here, you will get one and not an axe with an absolute perfect gold etching "full hollow ground".
Regards Peter

I still vote for Victor.
American made!

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Originally Posted by hatzicho

Unfortunately this is absolutely true. The real razor grinders that had mastered their handcraft belong to a dying species. The razors are not thin enough, the bellies and the area to the edge are wavy, thickness of spine is uneven. And this applies to most of the still existing companies. Forget the "evide sonnant" - absolutely nothing is singing on that razor. Thick as an axe - like my old master would say. Dovos are not much better nowadays. There are two companies in Solingen that still do the handcraft in the old way with experienced and skillfull grinders. Wacker and Revisor. If you order a full hollow razor here, you will get one and not an axe with an absolute perfect gold etching "full hollow ground".
Regards Peter

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Peter, I’ve always thought that if we could go back in time to the great days of Filarmonica, Sistrum, Dreifus, Peres, Heljestrand, and many other great hollow grind makers, and look into their shops, we would find someone that looked like our grandmother, with Coke bottle glasses, smoking unfiltered cigarettes and knocking out Filarmonicas, Bartmanns, Dorkos, and Heljestrands one after another for 40 years until she retired!

I have a reason for saying this. I used to rebuild Harley Davidson engines in a past life, and they had a peculiar two-part flywheel that served as the crankshaft, and it required that both halves be trued to each other. It took me and my friends 30 minutes at best and sometimes an hour or over to assemble one of these motorcycle crankshafts. Well we went on a tour of the Harley Davidson factory, and saw, yes, your mother, trueing these assemblies on the factory production line. She had a copper hammer, a truing stand, and a wrench. ‘Whack, whack, a pull on the wrench, and she did in one minute what took us 60x as long to do. That’s because that’s all she did every day and she was so much better at it than we were it wasn’t even funny.

Practice makes perfect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hatzicho

Unfortunately this is absolutely true. The real razor grinders that had mastered their handcraft belong to a dying species. The razors are not thin enough, the bellies and the area to the edge are wavy, thickness of spine is uneven. And this applies to most of the still existing companies. Forget the "evide sonnant" - absolutely nothing is singing on that razor. Thick as an axe - like my old master would say. Dovos are not much better nowadays. There are two companies in Solingen that still do the handcraft in the old way with experienced and skillfull grinders. Wacker and Revisor. If you order a full hollow razor here, you will get one and not an axe with an absolute perfect gold etching "full hollow ground".
Regards Peter

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Thanks a lot for the information. That is what I've been thinking about and other straight-razor shavers say so.
Maybe, I will get a Filarmonica someday and also a Wacker.

I've got a TI on the way but I know what to expect.

Again, thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
Mike

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Originally Posted by Steve56

Peter, I’ve always thought that if we could go back in time to the great days of Filarmonica, Sistrum, Dreifus, Peres, Heljestrand, and many other great hollow grind makers, and look into their shops, we would find someone that looked like our grandmother, with Coke bottle glasses, smoking unfiltered cigarettes and knocking out Filarmonicas, Bartmanns, Dorkos, and Heljestrands one after another for 40 years until she retired!

I have a reason for saying this. I used to rebuild Harley Davidson engines in a past life, and they had a peculiar two-part flywheel that served as the crankshaft, and it required that both halves be trued to each other. It took me and my friends 30 minutes at best and sometimes an hour or over to assemble one of these motorcycle crankshafts. Well we went on a tour of the Harley Davidson factory, and saw, yes, your mother, trueing these assemblies on the factory production line. She had a copper hammer, a truing stand, and a wrench. ‘Whack, whack, a pull on the wrench, and she did in one minute what took us 60x as long to do. That’s because that’s all she did every day and she was so much better at it than we were it wasn’t even funny.

Practice makes perfect.

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Well Steve,
you are absolutely right.

Werner Breidenbach always told me, that after he finished his apprenticeship at Paul Drees, he was doing the pre-hollow-grinding on the blades for his boss for about 10 years. The pre-hollow-grinding, only one small (but time consuming) step in the whole razor grinding and production process. Thousands of blades. Sitting at the hollow-grinding machine for maybe 10h/d, doing only one movement. For 10 years or more.
Of course when he finished that period he exactly knew how a blade at the end of that production step must look, feel and sound - to be perfect.

When I started learning straight razor grinding from Werner Breidenbach I visit him very frequently to show him my newest works I did since our last meeting. Always hoping that I have been better that time than before of course. Werner simply looked at the blades, mirrored them in the ligth, did a thumb test to see the thickness of the edge area and maybe made a small sound test.
After the inspection he doesen’t say simply good or bad, spine too thick (often still tooo thick!! :boohoo:), than the hollow too thin („now it sounds tinny …“ :banghead: ) and so on.

No he also explained me! exactly how I did the different grinding steps, where I have been doing too much, wrong wheel diameters, grinding wheels not prepared properly and exactly every fault that I made during grinding, Pließten and polishing. And this without having seen me grinding and taking into account, that previous actions are mostly made unrecognizable by subsequent actions.
When I than looked him in the eye he always smiled and said – well I have been learning that too…..

And indeed it is unbelievable what you can see on a blade if you know the different steps of production and once needed to master them by your own.

Stay sharp
Peter

The thinnest razor i have is a Böker 7/8 extra hollow. I believe all the new Böker razors are now extra hollow. They are approaching the limit of what the steel can take with the hardening they use. There is no belly, making it really flexible. I prefer a full hollow with a belly to stiffen the blade a little. They can be a little grabby going against the grain.