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Hi all
I was reading about Iwasaki and his razors now, when I did find these link: http://www.munemasa.co.jp/english/1707-301.htm
Can that be tru??????:confused:
To shave up to 300-400 or even 1000 before any honing is needed? Or, is it just dam good stroping they do???
If not, that steel quality have to be superb.......some who use the same steel in Europe/USA?
Most, but not all, Japanese have light facial hair?
Al
I was gonna say that. There is no way you could get that sort of milage out of a metal edge unless you are doing little work.
Yes, I was thinking that to:thinking:..to good to be tru maybe.
But, little work and light hair may do it.
The Japanese have same pretty amazing steel varieties but 1000 shaves is stretching the limits of any material to hold a razor's edge.
Most Japanese seem to have light and little facial hair.
It is no doubt great steel, but I'd pity the 1000th man to get shaved if they were all Europeans.
That is tru Bruno...:ziplip:....NOT me,,,aaaaaaaa
1000 shaves is a bit over the limit for any razors, as you sad Russel
It's not really the steel by itself anyway...some of the most expensive and hyped pieces are out of extremely simple steel. Geometry and heat treat will do a lot of the work for you.
And I agree, 1000 is a bit stretching it. These razors can be used to trim eyebrows and peach fuzz on women's faces too, so I wonder if that counts...
I don't doubt they're very nice, long-lasting razors, but there's no magic.
Yes, the most sought after steels in the world (Tamahagane, Wootz, etc) are essentially Iron and Carbon, and a few minimal impurities. It's the method of producing the steel (impurities, homogeneity), the way the smith forges the steel (grain refinement), the heat treatment and geometry that set the men apart from the boys.
But still, 1000 full shaves on a western beard is out of the question for any steel.
I agree that I sure wouldn't want to be the 1000th person! I have a Tosuke and shave regularly with it. It was a bear to get it shave sharp initially, however it is noticeably sharper than all of my other razors (all shave ready), and seems to hold an edge longer than anything else I own. I've heard others say to never strop a Japanese razor, only hone it. I find that the shave is smoother with regular stropping every time I use it, but that's just me.
The steel is "different" from anything else I have. I don't know how to describe it accurately; there is a different feel to it on your face. I really enjoy shaving with it, but I don't know if I'd like it much after being dulled down by that many faces, European, Japanese or otherwise
Well when we find out who says to never strop a Japanese razor we'll give them a punch in the nose! All straight razors need to be stropped I don't care where they are made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragan
Just as long as they aren't wielding said razor when I start swinging...Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Once I get a post grad job, I am going to invest in a Japanese razor though, they seem pretty cool.
tomahagne and wootz may be sexy but it seems like many of the modern steels are capable of both being hard enough and flexible enough to outperform them.
The tradeoffs between hardness and flexibleness seem to put average and best steels into a fairly narrow range of edge holding once tempered appropriately.
That said my ats-34 certainly outperforms my wapi but is quite close to several of my antique solingens and sheffields. So I'm guessing that to a great extent the determining factor is the metalsmith's process rather than the quallity of the steel.
Robert, no offense intended, but that would be very hard to prove. The hands of a skilled bladesmith will render nearly all steels equal for all reasonable intents and purposes.
I just realized:
"Iwasaki" spelled backwards using Japan idiograms spells "chronik".
That explains a lot.............:hmmm:
Quote:
Originally Posted by loueedacat
Somebody's been doing searches on "Iwasaki" I see. ;)
necroposting...gotta love it!
As the the OP, I believe that he's referencing a story from Kousuke Iwasaki's book "Hamono no migata" (regarding blades), where he said a barber had told him he'd used one of the Iwasaki straights I believe, noｔ Kamisori, to shave 1,032 people without honing.
Apparently, he used to carry around the barber's name and number for people who questioned the story. :shrug:
Iwasaki was a sword maker and I understand that he made some from Tamahagne. The writeup doesn't specify the razor material.
Now that I'm a proud member of the Iwasaki brotherhood, I volunteer to take an accurate "in situ" count of the number of shaves possible before it needs to be honed. I may start a thread so I can make notes along the way as well. Might be interesting to see how far I can get with simple stropping on leather - no linen or felt for this experiment.
So thus far the count stands at ONE unless JimR had a test shave after he wrapped the handle for me. Jim?
My first shave right out of the box and 30 laps on the leather (just from habit) was absolutely flawless, and there was zero edge deterioration that I could feel. If this edge remains this keen I could easily see 200 or more shaves in the cards. 1,000 maybe - but my beard has some horse hair type areas - so who knows. We shall see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirColorado
No, no test shaves!
Good luck...I'm curious to see how it goes!
Dude when I got mine both papers and plastic sheathe were sliced! I then get an e-mail from Jim telling me how sharp it was because Iwasaki's successor Mizuoichi Ryuichi honed it. Gotta love that man. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by AirColorado
If anything all Jim did was strop it. IIRC 30 fabric/30 horse/30 cordovan.
Interesting! Regardless of where mine was honed and polished, it remains very keen and ready to shave.
One part of the paper that was next to the edge was sliced across about 1.5 inches, but it would make sense to me that in transit some pressure would be applied to that paper and it would slice if the edge was sharp and unprotected. However, the cut had to have happened long before it's journey from Japan to Colorado because the edge had a protective cover over it when it arrived that would not have allowed it to touch anything but air. So that slice had to have happened long before it was shipped to me.
I'm not sure exactly what this min-debate is about, but mine arrived unquestionably shave ready. So whatever transpired between the forging of the blade and it's arrival on my doorstep resulted in a well honed and polished edge, I see no dulling as a result of paper - and that's really all I care about! :-)
I'm not aware of any currently mass produced razors that are truly and consistently shave ready as they come from the manufacturer. Unless they are actually sharpened by someone who knows what they are doing they really aren't shave ready. I am, of course excluding the razors from the custom makers like Livi, Chandler, Williams et al.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiRed8
When I was selling Tosuke's several years ago none of them were shave ready or even close to it. When I got my iwasaki about 3 years ago it wasn't shave ready either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill S
Bill, I would hesitate to call razors being made in batches of 2-3, by one man, mass produced. And as his teacher literally wrote the book on Japanese razor honing, and he himself teaches others razor honing, I honestly trust that Miozuochi-san knows what he is doing.
Just for complete clarity:
Before I got any of these razors in my hands, I assumed that they would not be shave ready, as many people would I think. Thus I arranged with my barber to hone them for people, because I do not like the idea of sending non-shave ready razors to people. Like O_S said, we discussed this in private chat, and my assumption seemed to be supported by the experience of someone who contacted us both about honing a newly purchased Iwasaki razor (purchased from a brick and mortar store in the US, not from me).
However, when the razors actually arrived, I found that they did, in fact, have very keen edges--with stropping, they passed my arm hair test with NO popping, the hairs just lay down. I only have a few razors that do that, all of them honed by very experienced honers (like Sham, Ken Rupkialvis, Lee, et al.) and I thought "That looks good, why mess with that edge?" so I sent them out.
The people who received these razors all seem to agree that they are shave ready. That's good enough for me.
Jim, as far as I can tell SiRed8 was referring to manufacturers like TI, so that's what I was referring to. Yes this is somewhat off topic, so maybe that's why you are confused about what I said. It's pretty clear in my mind that Iwasaki/Miozuochi are not mass producers.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR
As far as the rest of your post goes...ok with me. You and I never talked about your plans and I have no opinion about how you handled making sure that the razors were shave ready. I understand that you are sensitive because someone challenged you, but it wasn't me. I'm sure the razors are shave ready, the Iwasaki that I have used was.
I'm sorry Bill, I didn't mean to respond to your post so snippily.
No problem, Jim. Sorry about the misunderstanding. And now.....back to razors:)