Cyril Salter razor impossible to get sharp.

Last week I got one of these from Dave12345 (member of B&B). Look here for his account: What am I doing wrong - Honing - Badger & Blade

He calls the razor a DOVO as he believes it is a rebranded DOVO, which I find very hard to believe. Razor had no etching on blade, plain tang, plain white scales. I believe Dave told me it had Cyril R. Salter printed on one scale when he got it new. I have done some research on Cyril Salter razors. They do sell razors with "Solingen" etched on the blade, but not on this razor's blade.

He had tried to hone it to no avail, when he mentioned he had binned it I asked him to send it to me which he did. When I got it the blade was 1/32" over 4/8", had a slight frown and some rust. I managed to remove most of the rust but some pitting remained.

As I do with all razors I get that have a less than perfect bevel I reset the bevel starting with 1.5K Shapton followed by a 5K Shapton, then Y/G Escher and eventually the Nakayama.

After 2 hours on the Shaptons I had a perfect edge. Passed thumb nail test, edge looked immaculate with unaided eyes and under the mike at 40X magnification. I did notice altready it did not cut any hairs off my arm at this stage, which is unusual as a blade usually starts to cut some hairs already after the 5K.

I decided to take it to the Escher, still no luck.

Am I doing anything wrong here or are these crap razors? At no stage have I applied any pressure not even on the 1.5 Shapton.

I have about 40 ebay razors under my belt, honed the B&B Le Grelot I had ordered unhoned. But I have never ever experienced this: perfect looking edge, cutting zero hairs.

Any suggestions??

Could it be that you have got a Zeepk incognito?:cool:

That's what I suspect as well, or a rebranded Pakistani razor.

It is very hard to say without being there but do you think you might need to go down below the 1.5K Shapton to establish the bevel?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by netsurfr

It is very hard to say without being there but do you think you might need to go down below the 1.5K Shapton to establish the bevel?

---

I don't think so, the bevel is really nice and even under the mike. Even nicer than some of the blades I shave with every day because as soon as a blade is shave ready I stop honing. I did more on this razor than any other razor simply because it did not get sharp. I wish I could take pictures with my mike to show you.

Wow! maybe it is just really crappy steel. Maybe it is a Paki razor. Sounds like you have gone through some pain.

It sounds like you have done a lot of work and are certainly not a newb. So..the only thing I can suggest is to hone on the 5K until the edge is over honed. Then move on to the higher grit hones.
If it will not over hone then the steel is simply to soft to use as a razor.


Just my two cents,:)

Thanks for your advice Randy.

I am a bit puzzled though as you recommend to overhone and then move on to a higher grit. I have always got the impression that going back to a lower grit was recommended for an overhoned razor.

Would you please explain?

Sometimes going to the next higher grit works, sometimes not.
The main point is to see if the edge is made from a steel that is hard enough. If it is then it can be over honed. If you cannot over hone it then it is junk steel. This assumes you are using a Norton stone, not a natural stone.

Hi Randy,

I don't have a Norton, would it work with a Shapton?

I do not know for certain but I think so. If the Shapton has a uniform sized grit then it should work.

When I set a bevel using a diamond 1200 grit it can cut hairs. That is how I know the bevel is truly set. If I try and go to higher grits without being able to cut hairs at 1200 the results are less than I would desire.

Did you hone out the frown? If the frown is still there, you're probably only honing the ends of the razor.:shrug:

I would think that even a crap razor would cut hairs if the bevel was set, it just wouldn't hold an edge worth a darn. Even soft steel is harder than arm hair.:shrug:

I wonder, Kees, if even though the bevels as viewed from the sides of the blade even under magnification appear to be proper, if the two planes of the blade are not intersecting yet (bevel not set). To that end, I'd love to have an extremely high magnification tool with great resolution for viewing the edge of razors "head on" to provide a true bevel setting visual aid.

Chris L

Ive worked on these Salter razors and shudder whenever I see one. I have had exactly the same problem - bevel ok, good-looking edge, sticky-thumb test passed, strop it, HHT bombs out, then it won't take forearm hairs off. I think they are just incapable of holding an edge full stop. That said, I've had some that hone up fine and take a reasonable (if not fantastic) edge. This to me points straight down the road of inconsistency in the quality of steel used and that usually means Chinese as they melt anything down to use they can grab, so you could get beancan steel or Russian KW2 tank armour steel. Frankly I don't know which would be best - or worst! :eek:

Thanks for all your suggestions. I followed them all up to no avail. I am afraid I have to agree with blueprinciple it is crap steel.

I had the same experience with a cheap master from china, I worked on it for over two hours and every time I got a edge it bombed out, just would not sharpen. Steel, if you could call it steel was so soft even when I did get a edge still would not cut arm hair, I am going to give this to my grandson to practice with, he is just learning how to shave and maybe I can pass on to him the right way to shave, but not with a master from china.

Cyril R Salter razors were definitely made by Dovo at some point in time. Quite a while ago I got a heap of Dovo blades that included a number of unstamped ones. From the looks (shape and grind) of the ones I had, they were going to be Edwin Jagger razors but they definitely made ones for Cyril R Salter as well.

Here's a tip that for some reason has worked for me a few times on razors that don't seem to want to get sharp. Strop them after each stone and recheck that they comfortably shave arm hair.

I had the same experience with a blade from Pakistan, it would not sharpen at all and I decided to strop it and it sharpened right up, not shave ready of course, but it got sharper. I would sharpen this razor and go up to another grit and do a couple strokes and it would go dull again. I know it is the cheap steel causing this but it was really weird.

I know this post is ancient but I had the same problem with a Pakistani razor I got for 9$. I knew it was trash and didn't expect to actually shave with it so I bought it to practice my honing on something other than a my vintage g&f. And after I set the bevel it would cut 4 arm hairs and go full as soon as I moved up a grit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SloppyFloppy

I know this post is ancient but I had the same problem with a Pakistani razor I got for 9$. I knew it was trash and didn't expect to actually shave with it so I bought it to practice my honing on something other than a my vintage g&f. And after I set the bevel it would cut 4 arm hairs and go full as soon as I moved up a grit.

---

Why don't you hunt around for an old Sheffield that needs some TLC? At least you'll get something that's worth your time learning upon and may give you a nice shave as a reward.

I primarily use it to practice my stroke and keeping the blade flat on the stone while honing

It took me like 2 hours on a 1k chosera after hour or so on a DMT on my puma 350. It was chipped and I breadknifed it close to chip being out then I DMT until chip was out. TBH was a lot of honing until bevel finally set, I went up to 5k (I can usually chop arm hairs just running blade above skin there) and it didnt cut until like third time although bevel did look great. However this is one of my favorite razors (and I knew steel was good), not sure I would put to much time in razor I was not going to use/give to friend