Some razors rock.

I was tempted to post an answer on the classifieds as to why Ducks are not commanding very high prices at the moment, but thought it unfair to the seller.

Well DD's were DOVO's made for the American market. They give a normal shave, but they are not "special". They certainly are not worth a premium price against the current DOVO production and the silly prices people will ask and pay for a normal razor has always both astonished and amazed me.
OK for collectors, I understand. OK for "Americans" because they are special to the USA. But special daily shavers..... no way.

Two other overpriced razors Are DORKO and PUMA. Better quality than DD's but the price they command is far in excess of the shave quality. Vintage Wade and Butcher wide blade razors also seam to fall into the same camp.

Historically, these razors were not top of the price range and why they are today is something that if I understood, I would be a very rich.

I don't intend to list my list of "good" razors for three reasons:
If I list them, it will likely overhype the prices.
If people fail to recognise quality and rely on hype and price to make up for their own research, well more fool them.
There are some I have not tried yet.

Any body any comments?

I didn't know DD's were DOVO's - how interesting

I'd like to do my own research on that though - do you happen to have any I could test?

Apparently, the fact that Dovo made razors for DD has already been "discussed" - not much but mentionned - in this forum (SRP rocks): http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...rid-7-8-a.html
Unfortunately Superfly's link seems to be dead... not any more... Superfly was fast and a new link has been posted. Way to go!

Maybe somebody will be able to give more info.

Wow, that's a very interesting point of view.
If the Dovo-made razors (Dubl Duck, Dorko and Puma) aren't all that good and the Sheffield ones aren't either, I guess the real good ones must be the rest - the french, the polish, the chinese, and the pakistani ones. And of course the russians - they still can be found on ebay.

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Originally Posted by Ockham

Unfortunately Superfly's link seems to be dead...

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Not quite dead, just living elsewhere :) http://straightrazorpalace.com/old_s...d,24/Itemid,3/

This is the new link superfly has already updated the original SRP thread with: http://straightrazorpalace.com/downl...p?do=file&id=1

Not much of a new concept. I avoid big name brands most of the time (not necessarily razors). I enjoy finding something with a good price/value ratio while watching others flock to the more well known brands.

The question for me is: where does a relative newbie do research on Straights?

Hey Gugi,

I didn't say they are no good, they are very good but not "special".
So don't mix my words and introduce really poor quality from the third world into the argument. That is not what this post is about. Please read what I say and not what you think I said.

I'm asking why certain razors suddenly will command premium prices even though they are not "special "shavers.

Nothing personal.

here's the updated link:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/downl...p?do=file&id=1

a file called Great DOVO info. Things got messed up in the SRP redesign...

Actually, DD's prices skyrocketed after Lynn made his video and distributed it on the Yahoo SR group, some 4-5 years ago...

Ducks are good shavers, so are other razors. Dorko's and Pumas, along with Henkells and Boker were European brands, well recognized, W&B, along with Wostenholms, Taylors e.t.c. were British brands, and Genco's and many more american brands are also excellent shavers.

The thing is that all these brands were recognized as good shavers, and that is how they earned their reputaion, which lasts hundreds of years. Back in the days manufacturing a good quality high carbon steel was way more difficult than buying it today, so the companys that managed to do that, stayed in the top...

cheers,
Nenad

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Not quite dead, just living elsewhere :) http://straightrazorpalace.com/old_s...d,24/Itemid,3/

This is the new link superfly has already updated the original SRP thread with: http://straightrazorpalace.com/downl...p?do=file&id=1

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wow, you guys type fast!

cheers,
Nenad

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Originally Posted by Pyment

The question for me is: where does a relative newbie do research on Straights?

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Now then. That is a simple one. The concept is called Learn Through Pain, and it works quite well as a field study conducted in Berlin, Germany, over the last 6 months has shown.

For everything else, there is Master... errr... the search function in this forum. And, of course, the Chat.

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Originally Posted by Pyment

The question for me is: where does a relative newbie do research on Straights?

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Pyment, a great start is reading ALL the files in the Help Section. After that, it's all the Search function, and the chat room, as BeBerlin mentioned...

have fun,
Nenad

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Originally Posted by English

Vintage Wade and Butcher wide blade razors also seam to fall into the same camp.

Any body any comments?

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Personally the W&B's really appeal to me. I think it's the size. It kinda has this bad-a$$ look about it. Also I'd really like to try a wedge.

I'm not sure if that's the attraction others feel toward the W&B's, and why they are getting the prices they are getting?

That said, so far a 6/8 has been the most affective size for me thus far. I don't think I could use an 8/8 as a daily.

Thanks for the info on the DD's. That's interesting stuff.

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Originally Posted by English

Hey Gugi,

I didn't say they are no good, they are very good but not "special".
So don't mix my words and introduce really poor quality from the third world into the argument. That is not what this post is about. Please read what I say and not what you think I said.

I'm asking why certain razors suddenly will command premium prices even though they are not "special "shavers.

Nothing personal.

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Of course my post is an exaggeration of what you said. I agree that many razors are hyped beyond reason, but every duck I've tried has been a pleasure to hone and use - certainly above average, although I have other razors that I prefer better. Of course I haven't tried the dovo ducks, but I've tried several Dovo razors and they are not bad at all, some are rather good actually.
As far as W&B go, I have only one that may stay, but I have several multiples of some other old sheffield brands. I wouldn't call them not special though. DD and the W&B are one of the most abundant razors around, and their prices are quite high, so it's not the supply part of the equation.

The thing though is that even if you post your favorite brands that will be a rather small ripple - nothing even close to the Wonderedge effect.

As far as where newbies should start, I agree with BeBerlin - they should start in the Classifieds to get one consistent razor and then they can explore others just like the rest of us do. Unfortunately most newbies think that there's a magic razor, or that just buying a sought after brand will be enough to make them learn faster or anything. And then they go ahead and buy the toothpick of a dubl duck with rotting scales and think they got incredible value for that $50.... All the information is available in the stickies, so I don't feel too bad for them.

We all value different things - I happen to prefer razors which are closer to the original condition from the factory and materials like ivory and horn, and usually pay premium for this. Others prefer the mirror finish of a regrind and plastic or wooden scales over ivory - we all spend our own money, so it's all good :)

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Originally Posted by English

I'm asking why certain razors suddenly will command premium prices even though they are not "special "shavers.

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Not least because of information like this. Flaunting brand names seems to be the latest (or maybe not so late) hype in another forums. Given the limited amount of information that is readily available to a complete newcomer, it is little wonder that nobody ever got fired for recommending a well known brand. See it as reverse FUD. Funnily enough, two really good razors I have a no-name razors (thank you, Coully!).

:OTI think a more prominent reference to the help section (especially sticky posts like this one) right on SRP's front page might actually be helpful for a newcomer.

In the early 1980's when I first became infatuated with straight razors I hung out in a neighborhood barber shop. A barber of seventy some odd years old named Frank Natale told me then that he thought Dubl Ducks were the best and that Solingen made razors in general were the better then razors made in other countries. A few other barbers in the north ward of Newark, NJ were of the same opinion. They were also older guys who had been cutting hair and shaving people for years.

This doesn't prove anything but it does demonstrate that DDs got their reputation long before the internet at least with some of the population. Of course these guys would have thought that paying two or three hundred for a Wonderedge was insanity. Maybe it is. :) I haven't done that ...... yet.

I have a four or five DDs and they all shave very nicely. More importatnly to me they are easy to hone to shave ready. I find Pumas and Dovos to be more difficult to get up to speed and TI harder yet. Maybe it is my lack of expertise but that is my experience so far.

From my experience, most of the razors that are known to be great shavers are not all that rare. There are two pretty obvious reasons.

1. If you made a product that was really good, chances are pretty good that you'd make a lot of them; you'd stay in business and make money.
2. If there are razors that only a handful of people have, you're not gonna hear about them. Razors have to be used and written about by a fair number of people in order to be acknowledged as good razors.

So these well known razors that are known to be great shavers are expensive, even though they tend to be rather common. Supply may be high, but there is clearly a larger demand; unfortunately the demand seems to be largely newbies that don't know better, insane collectors, or people that are just stuck on name brands.

For every big name, great shaving razor, there are probably at least ten other makes of razors that are unheard of and just as good. Personally, I don't like paying top dollar for razors, especially now that I hone my own, so I'm moving towards off brands or name brands that I can find on the cheap.

I won't comment about the Dovo-DD issue because its untrue. A few well known makers made some razors for DD but in general most of their razors were sourced from a variety of makers and the identity of most of them seems to be a big secret.

Remember that DD is just a name reflecting three separate companies. At most it was a name for products sold by a barber supply company. They manufactured nothing. The reputation their razors have is not based on us. It comes from barbers using these razor going back many years. Ask any old time barber what razors he used and I'll bet he had a few DDs as part of his working collection. Dorco is to Germany working razors as DD is to american. They specialized in barber supplies to the trade in Germany and as with DD here if you asked an old time barber in germany what razors he used Dorco will be at the top of the list.

There are many good shaving, quality razors out there but I can think of no company that seemed to sell so many fine shavers with really consistant quality and are easy to hone and maintain then the ducks. I should know I have about 25 of them.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

There are many good shaving, quality razors out there but I can think of no company that seemed to sell so many fine shavers with really consistent quality and are easy to hone and maintain then the ducks. I should know I have about 25 of them.

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Exactly!!!!!!



Damn I only own 14, but I have sure honed and restored way more than that... One thing that remains true "Unless a DD blade has been damaged in some way it will hone and shave easier than just about any other brand consistently"

Keep in mind that I did not say they are the end all be all of the razor world, but they are the most consistent that I have found, and as most of you know I have a bad habit of buying little collections of razors.....

Fritz Bracht imported his blanks from Sweeden . They were drop forged , heat treated and tempered in Dovo's facility in Solingen. Most of his products whether sold under his brand or others such as DD were superior in quality. That was evident in his days as it is still evident to most straight razor afficionados nowadays.
It is not wise to compare Dovo razors manufactured by Fritz Bracht to their modern products.
Whatever you decide to be the best razor is a matter of personal preference. And most seasoned straight shavers do not base their preference purely on brand but also on type of steel ,width of blade width and grind.
When it comes to pricing condition is the major determining factor for all out of prduction collictables and DD's are no exception. It is not too difficult to grab a GE in fair condition for well under $50. For a mint WE you may have to go ten times that , and this is not uncommon with most other well known brands.
Cheers
Kal

I don't know if they're "special" or not, but I do enjoy my two DD's. The 7/8 Goldedge I bought was shave ready, and the other 5/8 Wonderedge I got was NOS....and it was pretty easy to hone up to sharp as hell on a Belgian coticule.

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should know I have about 25 of them.

Damn I only own 14

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I think you guys own to many of them :p maybe you should give some to people who don't have even one but would like to try, like... ME :w please...

You are right .i don't know what happined all f a sudden dd's price went way upppppp.i used to see them almost excellent conditon for 30-45 now wow they are overpriced.

there are definitely a ton of good quality razors out there. but i think peoples preference on what type of steel feels good comes into play along with the easy to hone and maintain plays a part as well.

i think there are a ton of "cheaper" american made razors out there that hone very easily and take a great edge that are great as starter razors for new people. hell, they could be the only razors someone has and they could be happy campers for life.

having tried brands from all over, i find myself and my face enjoying blades made in sheffield. the old english blades really do it for me in both smooth easy shave and ease of edge maintenance. there will always be the one off's that are fantastic but old english steel really makes me happy.

~J

dont forget about the feeling of some blades. there's not much like holding an old WnB or Joseph Elliot that is 1/4 inch thick. that mass really adds to the experience and feeling of the shave over really thin hollow grinds. some love that an some dont. all personal preference!

It makes me laugh that there are so many views but it's what makes the world go around.

Incidentally, the source of my knowledge about Duble Duck razors came from an old English barber and not Dovo's General Manager (although I had read the DOVO interview when it was first posted). A guy who was having a shave asked Seth the barber if he had ever heard of DD razors. Seth said he had and that they were made in Germany by DOVO for American barbers. Are they any good asked the customer. Seth looked up for a minute and said no, not really, not you know, special like a PUMA.

The mystery of the Puma cut throat razor has stayed with me throughout my life.

Incidentally that conversation was overheard in about 1965. I was sixteen and starting to take a keen interest in manly things. Funny how you remember things and have them confirmed over forty years later.

It might very well be that the Pearlduck branded DDs were made by Dovo but the bresnick and bresduck razors pre date the existence of Dovo.

My "rockin" razor is the MACK that GSI turned me onto. Mine has a clipped tip (it's shorter than it should be, and it wasn't done all that well), but it has a wonderful edge, and works well. A bit more tendancy to cut me than my other razors because the tip is completely perpendicular... looks like it was cut off with a hacksaw. But it's still sweet!

My favorite feeling razor is a loxley, it's big and heavy and the tang is serrated so I can get a good grip on it. Haven't quite gotten it to comfortable shaving sharpness though, and it's too big for some of the fine trim work (stubby Mack works well as the touch up here).

Wostenholm and Case are my two "go to" razors for every day shaving.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by English

It makes me laugh that there are so many views but it's what makes the world go around.

Incidentally, the source of my knowledge about Duble Duck razors came from an old English barber and not Dovo's General Manager (although I had read the DOVO interview when it was first posted). A guy who was having a shave asked Seth the barber if he had ever heard of DD razors. Seth said he had and that they were made in Germany by DOVO for American barbers. Are they any good asked the customer. Seth looked up for a minute and said no, not really, not you know, special like a PUMA.

The mystery of the Puma cut throat razor has stayed with me throughout my life.

Incidentally that conversation was overheard in about 1965. I was sixteen and starting to take a keen interest in manly things. Funny how you remember things and have them confirmed over forty years later.

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I really don't care what folks call a razor or who said what about it. I own a single wonderedge that I bought in order to test out the legend and it is one of the best and most comfortable shavers I own. It is a 6/8 roundpoint and it shaves as easily as my 7/8 W&B wedges. I haven't had the chance to check out a puma yet, but I will reserve judgement for when I do. Put it in my hand and let me shave with it. If it shaves well I could care less and it is a great blade. If it also makes me smile to look at, it's a special blade. Heck, I have a 7/8 hollow with some tiny chips that won't hone out that shaves very close and is as comfortable as a cold cloud moving across my face. I will continue to buy DD's that I deem worth the asking price just as I would any razor I like. Just my Opinion and we all know what those are like...

Dubl Duck made by DOVO is still something I find hard to believe as IMO DD shave MUCH better than a Dovo.

I agree that PUMA are better than DD. They are one of the best brands out there. They shave smoother and closer than DDs.

I do not know why they stopped manufacturing str8s, I am hoping that one day the start back again.

I forget the exact detail but the last family member that owned Puma passed away in the '80s or thereabouts and the company went to a conglomerate. The older Puma knives are highly esteemed while the later post conglomerate stuff is not. I imagine that if they did get back into razors they would be re-branded Dovos or whomever.

Don't know if all of you saw the other thread going on but here is what I have to throw into the mix (also what the other thread mentioned)-

I have a PUMA razor in original PUMA scales that is also a DD. It's a rare hybrid supposedly. Honest to god, the front tang is marked PUMA, solingen, made in Germany; the back tang is marked with two ducks (the DD logo) and says Bresnick, New York. It is all original. What does this mean about Bresnick razors pre-dating Dovos and this razor being made by that company, etc. I don't know. I think this obviously proves that PUMA and DD were made by one another in some way, shape, or form and that no, DD razors aren't necessarily "worse" than PUMAs if "some" were in fact made by PUMA. Without hard evidence like this along with paperwork, I'll take no one's word as pure fact. Either way, I think all the razor manufacturers mentioned in this thread as being great shavers have at one time made a superior shaving razor or been made by a company that did/does make one. I don't have pics of the razor I have, but will if I get a chance. In the meantime, HERE is the link if someone was wondering... third article down.

I just looked at Big Spenders collection of Ducks. Absolutely stunning. I totally understand why I might have rattled his cage My apologies.

Really gentlemen, I just wanted to hear what you you guys really think and boy why don't you call a spade a spade.

Finding Ducks in the UK is like finding rocking horse s***. I found one and to be honest, it was poor. One bad apple.......

Clearly from the response on this thread the general opinion from many respected members is that DD's are generally of a high quality and well worth the money whoever made them.

My best two razors at the moment are..... no , that's my secret.

God bless you all.

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Originally Posted by English

I just looked at Big Spenders collection of Ducks. .

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Been looking everywhere for this , where is it posted ?
Thanks
Kal

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...ffy-ducks.html

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Originally Posted by kq53

Been looking everywhere for this , where is it posted ?
Thanks
Kal

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I found them here. View the rest of the thread for more great pix.