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I'm having Mr. Chandler create me a custom razor and I need some advice choosing a steel. I have one chandler that I picked up gently used from SRD. It's mirrored stainless and shaves fantastic so I'm kinda leaning toward that. I do love the Damascus though but I'd like an edge that will get scary sharp and hold a nice edge for a while. Any advice is appreciated. Maybe I just need one of each.
I would go for a mirror polished HCS blade just to have something different. After all you already have a SS.
Most time I read about Damascus steel and razors I read between the lines about dissatisfied customers. Pretty but not practical is what they say.
Carbon steel is softer and easier to hone than a stainless (Carbon) steel but does not hold an edge for quite so long. Some feel stainless is smoother. I don't. I think that carbon steel is way way smoother but you need to buy top quality.
For me, I don't pretend to understand it but.........I get the best shave from a metal edge that looks smooth.
Wade and Butcher blades have a steel that looks smooth as do PUMA. They talk about a fine powdery steel. I don't pretend to understand what the alchemist are talking about but a smooth powdery edge is visually clear to see and always makes a fine razor to use.
One other thing. there are blades that are tempered to make a brittle steel.
These razors....often made by Boker and various US makers. They also seem to give a close comfortable shave.
But bottom line, ask Mr Chandler to make your razor using PUMA quality steel. I have seen Mr Chandlers work and he is a wizard for sure and a very talented artisan. But I don't know yet if even the best wizards fully understand steel well enough to make you a PUMA steel quality razor.
I hope I'm wrong and I mean no disrespect to anybody but when this side of straight razor steel is understood, I truly believe that the art of straight razor manufacture will have been advanced.
In the interim, I'm sure if Mr Chandler say its good, it will be.
I'm sure whatever steel you get, it will be good. I can't imagine JC would use materials that would yield anything other than an outstanding shave. If you have a choice of materials, I would ask him what he thinks (which would serve as a starting point) and then go for something that will look good and add some verity to the rotation.
If you like the feel of his stainless, I think you will be equally happy with his HCS. Don't be afraid of Damascus, when properly done, it is every bit as smooth as HCs, the difference is most often just a little bit of nickel in the shiney layers. Otherwise it is just a fancy HCS.
A good damascus (and I'm sure Joe wouldn't use a cheap one)might be made from 1095 which is HCS, and 15N20 which if I understand correctly is essentially 1075HCS with some nickel in it. When welded and polished, the steel easily meets all the requirements for a great razor. The edge is not etched, so the shave quality will be exceptional.
The bottom line, is any steel you chose will shave well, Joe wouldn't send it to you if it didn't, pick what you want, and have confidence in it.
Based on my own experience the only damascus that is really a bear to hone are the TI damascus razors. I have Zowada and Livi and they are no trouble to hone at all. I would say just get what you want and don't worry about it. If you can't make up your mind let Joe do it for you.
Thanks everyone for the great advice. I never really though about damascus as simply being a HCS. I think the answer may be to get one each eventually as I love the finish of both! Maybe I will go with the damascus since I do have other stainless and HCS shavers.
I hate making decisions! :mad:
I still have to make decisions about scales and file work too. Maybe I should just let him surprise me. :D
I'm thinking that if you have hard time deciding, you should reconsider if you really want a custom razor.
The point of having razor made to order is that you get a razor that you like, so knowing that is a prerequisite. Of course we all like many things and picking one versus the alternatives is not always easy, but you surely must have some idea.
The pattern wielded damascus is just that - two different carbon steels hammered together and at the end the surface is acid treated to create the contrast between the two components in a pattern. If you like the look go for it. As far as I know Joe purchases his steel and most of the time he sends it out for heat treatment. What he does is the grind the shape and decorations of the razor. Ah and he hones them too :)
In any case I'm very happy with the razor he made me. I told him various elements that I like and few basic things in the razor, and left to him to decide what else to include and what not. My razor is stainless as that's what Joe uses mostly and it's much cheaper than the other alternative I was considering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff
I have a burchtree kiradashi(japanese style knife) made of 1095 and that is nice steel and hard. I am not sure about how it works for razors but it must be great too.
Carbon steel is NOT softer than stainless, especially the typical 440 stainless used for edged blades. There are a few specialty stainless alloys that can match the hardness of high carbon steel, most made using advanced powder alloying technologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by English
@English
Carbon steel harness is all in the heat treatment.
With excellent HT, a tempered carbon blade will still be 62-63 HRC.
But older sheffield steel was not treated like that, and is usually softer.
Old W&B blades and similar are often a bit softer and start at 57 HRC, which is significantly softer.
This has nothing to do with the fact that they're carbon steel, but everything with the fact that they were not treated to be that hard.
You can specify the hardness that you want. A Rockwell of 60 would be good. That would be my choice. A Rockwell of 62 is much harder to hone but keeps its edge longer. Remember that the Rockwell scale is logarithmic, not linear, so a change from 60 to 62 is greater than a linear expectation.
Good point to remember when choosing a razor. Especially, if your honing skills are not that good.
I like the stuff, and as a matter of fact, many vintage sheffield razors were essentially 1095 ( approx. .95% carbon, some manganese and minimal amounts of other impurities).Quote:
Originally Posted by zenshaver
I vote for HCS, but that's the purist in me speaking.
Bruno is exactly right. Stainless is harder to HONE, not necessarily harder on the Rockwell scale. The difficulty in honing comes from the steel's extra resistance to abrasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Personally I don't like stainless blades. I've only tried a handful, but I've never figured out how to get them up to the level of a good carbon blade. Guess I still need to crack that code... :)
Also, a previous poster mentioned that Damascus steel has layers of nickel in it. That's true of some types of Damascus, but not the ones Zowada and JC use. The steels they use are just two dissimilar types of carbon or tool steel welded together. They should shave and hone just like an excellent blade made of a single steel.
Josh
FWIW, in many bladesmithing circles, higher alloy content steels are usually said to hold an edge longer but don't get as keen as the lower alloy types. The same is said for Japanese steels; White Steel is very pure and has an extremely fine grain size, but when it starts to lose it's edge it does so really fast; Blue Steel has a slightly larger grain size because of the Tungsten and Chromium that form carbides to resist abrasion and as a result holds a very nice edge for longer than White Steel, but doesn't quite get as sharp.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEarl
But I don't have hands on experience with razors made of stain-less steels, so I can't give an opinion.
Good point. I actually did not know that the Rockwell scale is logarithmic. That is an eye opener.Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
So now you know why handsanding a 61 HRC solingen blade takes much longer than handsanding a 59 HRC sheffield wedge :)Quote:
Originally Posted by netsurfr
If i had the cash to spend i would get a damascus blade, You already have a stainless one, From what ive read Damascus steel keeps an edge longer than regular steel, So even if you have to send it back to him for honing a couple of times a year i think it will be worth it in the long run.
Damascus as used for razors is made of 2 types of high carbon steel (I think Tim Zowada uses O1 and L6).
The folding and etching does not impart magical qualities on the steel, and quality wise, it'll behave just like those high carbon steels.
So for all intents and purposes, damascus is just regular steel that looks pretty, but no better (or worse) than plain jane high carbon steel.
For similar carbon contents and similar heat treatments, Bruno has summed it up nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno