Smoothness of the blade

Hello dear fellas!

A straightforward question looking for a straightforward answer:
Which type of steel do you believe that makes a straight razor blade feel smoother on the face?

I am asking this because I am aware of the fact that the contemporary blades of the safety razors are coated with chemical substances in order to feel smoother (correct me in case I am wrong). And this is the reason-according to many who have used both straights and safety razors-that a straight will never feel that sharp or that smooth compared to a blade of a safety razor, no matter how well honed it is.

I do not believe that using computer-guided machines to have our straights honed is an option, neither coating them with chemical substances so that they would feel smoother.

So for someone experienced with the straights (honing, shave technique etc) the question remains:
Is the steel type making the difference in the comfort and smoothness of the shave?

Waiting for your opinions!!

This is a topic we should discuss in more details. From what I've experienced, I think the Sheffield and Swedish steels are the most comfortable, stainless steel blades being some of the least comfortable. There is also the question of finishing the edge and how that feels compared to a different finish. On that I cannot weigh in with an opinion as I haven't fully formed one.

X

A straight forward question to to be sure, however there may not be a straight forward answer. All my Sheffield wedges and quarter hollow blades are smooth as silk, but so is the Livi regrind. I once owned a Clauss that was beyond even the Sheffield blades for smoothness. I'd have to say that, in my limited experience, there are many steels that can make a smooth shaving razor. The grind, shave prep, your skin, beard, and sharpness of the blade, even the medium used for the final finish, all seem to enter into the mix along with the steel. The devil of it is that some work in combination for a particular razor better than others (I'm working on this, but it is frustrating).
Oh my, I just realized how shave-geeky that sounds. Just hone a Sheffield blade at midnight during the Hunter's Moon and it will remain smooth for the next year, or some such rot.:rolleyes:
I do not, by the way, agree that a straight razor never feels as sharp or smooth as a DE blade. I've used some very poor DE blades at one time or another. DE users can't agree which blade is the sharpest and smoothest overall anyway.

FWIT - This morning on a whim I used my DE for the first time since I started using straights in April. I used the same prep as for a straight, a new Persona blade and used the same routine as w/a straight - one pass WTG, one pass ATG. I wouldn't necessarily say it was smoother, just easier, quicker and different. It doesn't seem quite as close as I normally get with a straight but that could be sloppiness or blade quality. And of course "enjoyability" is no contest - nothing compares to using a straight!

Every blade is different. Every person also prefers a different edge-at least IMO.

To master the art of honing, is to be able to sharpen a razor AND to make it a pleasure to shave with. I find certain steels are more difficult to hone-but that said, the finished razor will give a nice shave.That's were experience, as well as the use of different hones can make what would be a lousy shaver,a great one. Some of my Stainless blades are VERY frustrating to hone-but in general, once you figure out what the blade "needs" success is possible.

There are alot of different paths to the same destination-when I have a razor that isn't giving me a nice shave- I place the blame on my honing and not the razor.:shrug:

Just so long as we could agree that sharpness and smoothness can be two different aspects on the same edge then I think I could answer....
IMHO Filarmonica's have the smoothest feeling steel (followed closely by some of the Sheffield steels) that I have felt as of yet, (just to qualify that I have used upward of 500 razors) they however, are not the sharpest razors I have had though.... That distinction goes to some of the older American steel edges, followed by a close second by some of the SS edges from Solingen....
The real difference comes in the hands of the user though, using a wicked sharp American edge, can yield a very smooth feeling shave, but you have to use the razor correctly... Just to further this thread I use straights because of the comfort level, as do a lot of others, safety/disposables just can't even come close to the level of comfort, that a properly wielded straight razor achieves...

I've had a large collection of DEs and shaved with most of them. All of the celebrated Gillettes from the first double rings of 1903 to the adjustables of the 1960s. The British Aristocrats, Merkur Vision, various slants and more. The sharpest blades I found were the Gillette Swedes with the Feather being as sharp but not as smooth. No other blades came close for my personal beard and skin.

I have never had the irritation free shaves with DEs that I get with straight razors. With DEs I usually got weepers and occasionally nicks. In 8 months of shaving exclusively with straights it rarely ever happens . I can count them on one hand and have fingers to spare. I have a large assortment of straight razors that I hone myself. Some are better then others but I do better with them then with the DEs. If it were not so I would be shaving with a DE. This is just my personal experience needless to say others may have a different experience.

In my limited experience, carbon steel blades are smoother than SS. On the whole and not counting my Williams custom, my Sheffield blades are the smoothest, along with my Filly (this is curious because I'll bet the S-field blades are softer steel and the Filly is very hard steel). American, and German blades follow. YMMV :thinking:

Of course, this could just be the way they were honed.

Jordan

I wonder if carbide size plays much part, or if it is more about edge finish due to honing and stropping. Typically razor steels like 13c26 are very fine grained with small carbides.

The smoothest shave that I have had so far has come from a livi custom of Takeda. But beyond that I would say that the carbon steels that I have shaved with would be at the top of smooth and at the bottom being the stainless steels that I have shaved with.

Using a VERY broad brush, I feel that carbons are smoother on the skin than SS blades, which always - no matter how sharp you get them - feel 'scrapy' in comparison. Maybe that's just the makeup of the steel. As to best shavers - well. For my money a big English swept-blade wedge :medvl: cannot be beat for long-stroke shaving - I use Fenneys and W&B's (both 150+ years old) and I cannot find better - but that's MY way of shaving. I have mostly left the hollow grinds behind - but if they are what does the job for you, fine! And that is what is important, after all...............

Quote:

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Originally Posted by esal

I am aware of the fact that the contemporary blades of the safety razors are coated with chemical substances in order to feel smoother (correct me in case I am wrong).

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I suspect that stropping on newsprint (which is a not uncommon practice for some straight razor shavers) emulates this. Black newspaper ink really gunks up easily and could possibly fill up the voids of the edge's scratch pattern, much like the teflon coating on commercial disposable blades.
I don't have much experience with it myself though.

Just a thought,
Bart.

[quote=esal;275657]Hello dear fellas!

A straightforward question looking for a straightforward answer:
Which type of steel do you believe that makes a straight razor blade feel smoother on the face?

I am asking this because I am aware of the fact that the contemporary blades of the safety razors are coated with chemical substances in order to feel smoother...

This may be straight forward but is actually two questions, one simple and one complicated. Starting with the simple, the coatings on the blade reduce drag on the skin from the bevel not the edge. Picture a perfect therotical edge going to infinate sharpness and coat it with anything. The edge is then that much less sharp unless you are cutting with the coating not the base metal. A good prep and good shave soap, maybe even a pre shave oil will give you less drag or a smoother slide of the metal against your face.

Second question, sharp edge, less/no tugging while cutting hairs and which metal does best. This is complicated. We talk about swedish, solingen and sheffield steels and compare them but this is very general and vague. I suspect this relates to the process used and the skills of the people making the steels and not the specific steel used in the blades. Steel is a mixture of different elements with the primary element being iron. Different types of steel have different charateristics and grain size/structure which is altered in the heat treating, quenching and tempering process. In hardened steel some common trade names for the steel would be O1, D2, A2, CPM10-V as well as different types of heat treatable stainless steels. Each have different characteristics and grain structure. The grain structure is what determins the fineness of the edge and longevity of the edge. Here is a link to some pics of metal showing the grain structure: Aston Services and Specialties: Heat Treating Evaluations and Troubleshooting . The harder grains will stay sharper longer than the softer grains between them. The larger the space between the hard grains the faster the edge will dull. As a note, tempering reduces stress and lowers the hardness of the metal making it less britle and more tough, so a double tempered Filli should not be as hard as blades of the same metal tempered just once. Each sraight razor manufacturer may have used different metals in different models of their blades. WIthout knowing exactly which metal was used for the blade we can only generalize by saying Sheffield, Soligen or Swedish steel, which had a good forging process. An example of this forging quality issue is that years ago I was working with some A2 metal which was very good heat treatable steel and held an edge well foir the application it was selected for. To save money we were trying some Japaneese steel mills (the US mills were closing). While the metal compisition was correct, the forging process (melting and mixing of the steel) resulted in the formation of tiny voids (bubbles) in the finish product which was only visible under a high powered microscope. In straight razor terms, this would have resulted in micor chips on the edge and since these 'bubbles' were all through the steel you would bever be avble to hone them all out of the edge, but it may be possible to roll a burr into the micro chips to give the appearance of a smooth edge.

So a vague answer relating to a sharp edge is the sheffield, swedish or sologen metal, but which of thee is the best for a keenest and longest lasting edge can only be based on our personnal evaluations and not sicentific data.

Personally and from my limited experiance limited razor supply, my limited honing experiance and limited detailed evaluations I like Pipe razors, Ducks and Henckles blades best with the Friodur as best of the Henckels. I have obtained the best edge on one of my Pipe razors. I also have many other blades that do very well with some being US steel such as Case Imp and Clauss blades. Sorry I could not be more straight forward with my answer. The answer to your question is complicated because the real specifics on metal used is vague. Good luck in your quest!!:)

Outstanding replies!!

Thank you all so much.

I have found that the final honing medium has as much to do with smoothness as the type of steel. My smoothest edge comes from CrO on a balsa paddle.

bj

Since I've only used Carbon Steel so far, I can't really offer an answer to the question. However, so far, using only Carbon, stropping and technique seem to be key to the issue (though equally, since I found a vintage coticule Multiform in my back-building, smoothness has improved exponentially).