New razor company - good bet?

Here's a question for the group: if there were to be a new manufacturer or tang stamped seller of razors, would the demand be great enough for the seller/maker to profit enough to want to continue selling the razors?

Say for instance that Spyderco decided to make razors and made them with excellent steel and a design that attracted the eye, would they sell well enough to make it good business? Or say that Don and Lynn, for instance, contracted with a maker to produce a "Straight Razor Design Straight Razor," and again if the quality were there, would enough of us buy those razors to make it pay well enough that the venture could continue?

Or are there too few of us using these blades to make a new business venture an unlikely prospect? I ask because in the old days it seems that a hardware store could get custom blades made with their company's name stamped on the shank and apparently enough sold so that this enterprise didn't sink anyone's boat. Could a Straight Razor Design, or a Vintage Blades, or a Custom Shaving, or a Shaving Shop, or a Spyderco... make it work?

--we'd have to train a whole new generation of Wackers--:bow

Well as a matter of fact Dovo makes razors with other names on them and TI has done it for AOS. As far as a new company coming along before I would buy one I'd want to know something about the makers.Some of the custom guys have gotten it right however making a razor from scratch is a definite skill and unless you have some real talent and can do it yourself experienced guys are few and far between.

Price point versus quality/options my friend. Obviously if they were really top notch materials and more than is necessary for a straight (or even a niche design), the price would soar and the clientele would drop. On the other hand if it were something simple and basic with a low price point then maybe they would sell. Why? You want me to start selling a "line" of razors before I've even started selling my customs??? lol

If TI and Dovo both are months behind and Boker has resumed production, I would have to say yes !

I think it would be just great if we could purchase an SRD brand high quality moderately priced straight razor/s. I can think of no one better to work with a manufacturer in designing an excellent razor!!

Not to be a wet blanket and not pointing fingers at any faction of straight razor shavers, but most would agree, solidarity to a specific forum seems to be of great importance to many (SRP for me for example). I think non-SRP members that belong to different shaving groups would not be as excited as most of us would be about an SRD branded straight, and I hate to say some would probably even avoid such a purchase for that very reason.

Would there be enough demand from a non-forum affiliated new production focused straight razor company start up? Maybe a U.S. niche company (much like Retro 51 is to writing instruments. Aren't they based out of Texas?)? If it got the right press and marketed well and really promoted itself, bringing the old world and a dying art to life? I absolutely think there would be enough of a demand to fill. Give the company the right name, catchy, non-phony with an interesting edge to it and you're on your way.

I'm in. Who's got seed money or knows any venture capitalists?

Chris L

The only current manufactures of quality straight razors are also producing other lines of cutlery that are the mainstays of their companies. I couldn't imagine a company starting up dedicated solely to competitively priced straight razors and succeeding.

We are a fortunate bunch. We have the vintage market which never seems to run dry as well as a handful terrific custom makers and finally the mainstays such as TI and Dovo. I would love to see a company start up and survive making high quality reasonably priced straights but being the niche market that it is I doubt it is feasable.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

If TI and Dovo both are months behind and Boker has resumed production, I would have to say yes !

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Startup costs are the deal breaker. There is more busines than Dovo or TI can handle but could a new name on the market cut out a large enough share, and quickly enough to overcome the large startup costs needed to even go into production? How about skilled workers to perfectly grind each razor and make quality scales at a production, rather than craftsman rate and what wages would one have to offer and could they be recovered.

These hurdles are why larger makers can more easily offer new products and ideas than small ones and why many small businesses stay small. There are guys out there now making fantastic razors but the jump from a handcrafted Chandler, Williams, Ellis or Earl to Dovo or TI sized production is a huge one. The real meat and potatoes...the hand crafting would have to be passed on to others and that is where quality can take a huge turn. I found that even with my own endevour in order to step up production I would need to add people and there are steps I simply cannot farm out to anyone....the cutting and selection of the strops themselves and assembly of the paddles. On a razor engineers and technical people can design the steel and heat treatment processes but the grinding will require true craftsmanship and will make or break the product.

One can pay people to do a job but you cannot pay people to care.

My real job is in the aerospace industry and one thing overlooked even at our large firm is the difference between can we make this on paper and can we make this in reality.

Tony

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Originally Posted by Chris L

Not to be a wet blanket and not pointing fingers at any faction of straight razor shavers, but most would agree, solidarity to a specific forum seems to be of great importance to many (SRP for me for example). I think non-SRP members that belong to different shaving groups would not be as excited as most of us would be about an SRD branded straight, and I hate to say some would probably even avoid such a purchase for that very reason.


Chris L

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It does at times seem like people are rooting for their local sports team. Some, on another board seem to be very fond to (over?)hype products with their on forum label on.

Maybe if a new company started offering something different it might be successful. I haven't bought a DOVO or a TI simply because I don't want a hollow ground. If a company made a good wedge I would definately be a customer.

I think Tony makes an excellent point but I do feel that there is a niche between the Livis and Zowadas and TI/Dovo. It is my aim, ultimately, to try to fill that niche - not, I hasten to add, by making the whole thing myself (wrong/absent skillset and who does that anyway?) but to interest a UK knifemaker for maybe initial limited runs for the collector/high end market. To have a blade going out stamped 'Sheffield' -well, that for me is BOSS. :tu

(So - any UK knifemakers out there who want to test the wicket?) :y

Tony made mention of it and I also remember reading something about Dovo having a hard time finding people interested in acquiring the skills (apprentices, etc.) needed to make quality razors. Labor would be a problem.

Jordan

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Originally Posted by blueprinciple

maybe initial limited runs for the collector/high end market.

(So - any UK knifemakers out there who want to test the wicket?) :y

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Are you saying the initially, if your plan comes to fruition (and I for one hope it does) that only initially would limited high end razors be offered with the idea that eventually, a wider variety and more moderately priced razors would be available?

I ask because I see Livi & Zowada synonymous with "collector/high end market". :thinking::shrug:

Chris L

Tony Miller makes the best point, IMO-One can pay people to do a job but you cannot pay people to care.


With the cost of running ANY small or large business-making a price point is practically IMPOSSIBLE on a hand made item. Few of today's youth would NEVER consider spending time as an apprentice-learning a craft. BUT with the availability of CNC machining centers, prototyping equipment etc.-why not a 100% machine made product. Provided the set-up is correct, machines rarely have a bad day.

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Originally Posted by Lt.Arclight

Tony Miller makes the best point, IMO-One can pay people to do a job but you cannot pay people to care.

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I agree as well. I would see this as a small artisan cooperative; that way each worker would have a vested interest in the success or failure of the business.

Chris L

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Originally Posted by Bruce

Here's a question for the group: if there were to be a new manufacturer or tang stamped seller of razors, would the demand be great enough for the seller/maker to profit enough to want to continue selling the razors?

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This sounds much like a new auto manufacturer trying to break into the market. Niche makers such as Lexus have well known parents such as Toyota and have a fighting chance. Other upstarts such as Hyundai and Kia had to duke it out in the bargain basement, price wise, and work their way up the food chain proving they could provide a suitable product. I'm pretty sure the small custom makers like Joe, Bob etc. had to settle for less $$$ per razor when they started out than they do now. However, an artisan will have a better chance than a faceless new company that mass produces products as word of mouth will quickly bring them up to speed if the product deserves attention and they have quite low startup costs as they are a one man show. For a mass producer of unknown quality to jump in and offer Rolls Royce grade products *first* to fund the manufacturing of Beetles down the road might not fare so well.

Zeepk is currently in the startup Hyundai/Kia mode and they're not making the best of the situation! :D Other marketers, starting up will face the same skepticism by the majority of users and it would require some serious backing to weather the first few years while bringing the labor force up to a competent level where the product could stand on it's own merits.

Please keep in mind though.... I don't know squat about manufacturing or the ins and outs of making it work, but I do how I feel about products *I* buy and the manufacturers who make them.

Regards

Christian

I only think it is possible if you already have an experience in other cutlery, like e.g. Spyderco.
Imo a company like psyderco should be able to make razor with a limited amount of investment.
I don't know if it would be profitable for them, but the risk and investment would be minimal since they have all the required knowlegde and experience of pocketknives (jump to razor is not too bad) and large volume manufacturing.

Lots of good points - I love it! Re Zeepk - I think the only reputation they are forging for themselves is a bad one (and look how long it took Skoda to climb out of that pit!) and by flooding the market with cheap items they merely devalue the good stuff - after all, look at an old Skoda and an old Merc or Jag and the difference is obvious - compare a Zeepk with a Dovo VISUALLY and many a newb - and that's the Zeepk market - will think 'hey - no difference!' and buy the cheaper item - it's just human nature. As to the niche to aim at, I didn't mean come in on quality too much below the Livi/Zowada pieces - they are top craftsmen after all - but to make good quality razors in greater numbers than they do. This doesn't hurt the top artisans - they have again a different market - but it maybe does give guys willing to spend the price of perhaps a top-end Dovo an alternative to the 'Dovo or TI or nothing' scenario!

What are the problems with these Zeepk razor?
I've never seen one.

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Originally Posted by littlesilverbladefromwale

What are the problems with these Zeepk razor?
I've never seen one.

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Never looked for straight razors in ebay?

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Originally Posted by littlesilverbladefromwale

What are the problems with these Zeepk razor?
I've never seen one.

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Marcus - apparently they are made from old bean tins. Never seen one, never want to.

If they were made in India they may have been made out of British steel (sic)
Tata = Corus:gaah::roflmao

:eek:It'll happen, believe me!

Zeepk is part of the cheap razor syndrome. Usually inexpensive , generally in the $10 range, often describe as surgical grade stainless steel. Some dealers with questionable motives and mothers who sleep with gonorrhea infested terrorists will sell them for a whole lot more – and occasionally someone buys them. List starts as Zeepk, Steel Warrior, Master, Krieger, - this list not inclusive by any means. Search this site, plenty of info on this subject. The steel in the blades so junky that as one sharpens them towards a useful shaving edge, the metal just crumbles and will not take an edge. A no win situation if you know how to sharpen, hone, strop and shave. Just plain old beat your head on the wall frustration if you are a beginner and can’t possibly know it is not your fault.

A couple of observations.

Zeepk.... made in India, cheap..... kinda like Hyundai in the early days except that Zeepk does not seem to be striving to become better and that is sad, very sad.

The other observation is that at one time "Finest India Steel" actually meant it was made from quality materials, and not second rate black licorice as it does today regarding Zeepk.

Regards

Christian

Why dont they make an effort and make a product that can be used for it's intended purpose?
Surely, there is potentialy more wonga in that?