Are they Ivory???

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12-04-2008, 02:00 PM
FastEdge

Are they Ivory???

I found this on ebay. The seller states the scales are real elephant ivory. In my limited experience I can say that I think I have seen these scales before on another razor and they where celluliod. Someone asked this same quesiton of the seller. His response was condinsending at best, but direct in insisting that they are ivory.

Will this learned quorum of razor aficionado give their consensus?

J.R.Torrey Pre-Ban Ivory handled Straight Razor US ONLY - eBay (item 160274541825 end time Dec-18-08 13:15:47 PST)

http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/05/06/324e_12.JPG

Thank you,
Ed M
12-04-2008, 02:07 PM
Earthdawn

I believe the test for it is to take a HOT safety pin and see if it goes into the scale or if it does not it is Ivory....

Its hard to tell from a pic at best unless someone has one that is and can tell you if it is.
12-04-2008, 02:09 PM
nun2sharp

Just common celluloid, you are right, great razor, nice scales, should sell for about 1/10th of the starting bid, unless its shave ready and depending on the rarity/condition of those particular scales. The hot pin test to the inside of the scales would tell the truth.
12-04-2008, 02:12 PM
jockeys

hard to tell by looking, the only trusted way to determine is the hot pin test.

from his pix (which are small and badly taken) some of the surface details reflect light with an odd sheen, that doesn't look like most of the real ivory i've handled. not saying it definitely isn't ivory, but if i was a betting man, i'd bet they were celluloid.

could be wrong though, the pix aren't real good.
12-04-2008, 02:35 PM
aroliver59

One thing I've always read about ivory is that it's almost always thin,and rarely carved.
12-04-2008, 02:48 PM
JimmyHAD

A lot of people mistake celluloid for ivory. All of those heavily decorated handles are celluloid also known as "French ivory".
12-04-2008, 03:35 PM
Wildtim

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastEdge

His response was condinsending at best, but direct in insisting that they are ivory.

Just reading the attitude in that response to a question makes me more than certain I never want to do business with this guy. Never ever, no matter what the item, or how much I want it, do I want to put up with the crud he would throw if anything went wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

A lot of people mistake celluloid for ivory. All of those heavily decorated handles are celluloid also known as "French ivory".

This was my impression, mostly, I have heard of figured ivory but I've also heard of its extreme rarity.
12-04-2008, 04:17 PM
blueprinciple

Two points that say these are celluloid: The relief is too deep and the bottom pin isn't there - the scales are bonded and ivory scales are never bonded. They are celluloid. I have a pair of carved real ivory scaled razors and the difference to the surface is marked in contrast with this one. Plus for real, carved ivory the price is too cheap!
12-04-2008, 04:55 PM
Neil Miller

I hate to disagree with blueprinciple, but I have had an old one-piece ivory scaled razor with no bottom pin, but it had cracked at the bottom, so I had to pin it anyway.

It was much thicker than normal - thick enough to take a bit of relief carving (not that it had any, just a bit of scrimshaw) and was definitely ivory - it had the roughly parallel lines acros the length, the (often not that evident) v-section grain at right angles to the long lines, and it didn't melt.

Those scales on the Torrey don't look that convincing to me, though. Probably synthetic.

Regards,
Neil
12-04-2008, 05:28 PM
KristofferBodvin

Whats that nonsense he is writing in the bottom? About sending the razor back for free repair?Didn't quite make sense to me....:thinking:
Btw.The company went out of buisniess in 1963.
No chance thats Ivory.
12-09-2008, 11:17 PM
PapaBull

I assure you that those are celluloid.
12-09-2008, 11:33 PM
io7

Hmm, yeah hard to tell but I think right above the head I saw some wood ring looking lines. I wasn't convinced to begin with from the picture because I do have Ivory jewelry and they get rather shiny from handling it. I would assume that daily shaving would add oil to it and polish it nicely but I cannot see any distinct shine on the handle at all. I go with the "french ivory" thing!
12-10-2008, 05:36 AM
thewap

definitely celluloid. No soft color changes or pattern on the inside of the scales, the pattern on the outside is to smooth with no grain to be ivory.
12-10-2008, 05:43 AM
hoglahoo

Maybe French Ivory :)

Also, I noted this in the ad

Quote:

I haven't checked to see if the company is still inbusiness,but if it is
...
"The problem is that while the warranty card is included and is in great shape which by he way adds even more value to this fine razor, the company -J.R. Torrey, doesn't exist any longer- that's the funny part-ya see?"

???
Seller doesn't know if the company is still in business, but knows it doesn't exist - what the...? So yeah I guess that IS the funny part
12-10-2008, 11:42 AM
blueprinciple

Sorry Neil, I do stand corrected - what I should have said was that 'I have never seen any bonded ivory scales' I still think the relief looks too deep for the real thing, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I hate to disagree with blueprinciple, but I have had an old one-piece ivory scaled razor with no bottom pin, but it had cracked at the bottom, so I had to pin it anyway.

It was much thicker than normal - thick enough to take a bit of relief carving (not that it had any, just a bit of scrimshaw) and was definitely ivory - it had the roughly parallel lines acros the length, the (often not that evident) v-section grain at right angles to the long lines, and it didn't melt.

Those scales on the Torrey don't look that convincing to me, though. Probably synthetic.

Regards,
Neil
12-10-2008, 12:12 PM
guildofghostwriters

In his reply to the question about whether the scales are ivory or celluloid, he makes a big deal about how he's been dealing with all these different types of ivory for 35 years so he can tell instantly that they are definitely elephant ivory but if you look in his other listings, there's a mask which he can't tell whether it's ivory or bone - not so certain after all!
12-10-2008, 01:01 PM
hoglahoo

Another answer to another question

With his (or her) 100% feedback rating, and paypal's guarantee,
I don't think one could go wrong to buy and see for themselves what the handle material is.
Here is another reply from the seller:

Quote:

Hmmmm- Have you seen the ther ivory items in my store. I probably have over 450 ivory items in all. So, the question isn't my expeience with ivory- I have it and can tell which is elephant, boar's tusk, walrus, even vegetable ivory (did you know that there is such a thing?) It's just a question of convincing you. You know that you can return the item by contacting me within 7 days of receiving it, and I will waive in writing the re-stocking charge (which we seldom employ, but we seldom, if ever have returns).
If you give me your email address I can re-send the photos to you-they're actually quite large, but eBay takes them down in resolution to post them. You could then zoom-in to get a better look. Youll have to send your e-mail address back tome.
Beyond these ideas, I'm at a loss.....but surely, thee thigs could help. by the way, I have several antique razors with ivory scales
hanging around, and some others with cellulose handles. I will warrant this razor to be ivory. It's also one of the nicest ones I have, if not THE nicest.Ane a very good deal. If all those things and my reading my feedback don't convince you, then I fear that you just can't be convinced and will be paralyzed as far as decidig about this particular item, if not similar items.
And, by the way, I don't find the pictures to be plastic-looking. Respectfully,
Harris
12-10-2008, 08:38 PM
PapaBull

I'm 100% certain that the scales are celluloid, but I'm not going to get in the way of someone who wants to take their chances, anyway. Have fun. ;)
12-10-2008, 08:43 PM
nun2sharp

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaBull

I'm 100% certain that the scales are celluloid, but I'm not going to get in the way of someone who wants to take their chances, anyway. Have fun. ;)

+1 I looked at some of the items this seller is selling and it all looked like overpriced,and the scales are not ivory , look them up in the standard guide to straight razors if you need a more authoritative/documented opinion!
12-10-2008, 09:08 PM
badboris

Look at the last picture and see how thick they seem to be
Ivory scales are very thin these look like Celluloid

2 other things bother me with that seller

His bulls..t yarn.

At the price he's selling, he does not have to pad shipping cost.
Priority at Post Office is 4.80
Priority by internet is 4.75
PO furnishes box or enveloppes for free when using Priority.
He wants 8.75 shipping. That's $4.00 just for dropping the package in the corner mailbox.
12-11-2008, 05:42 AM
GhostRida

Buy it, if you don't like, he'll take it back.
12-11-2008, 05:43 AM
hoglahoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRida

Buy it, if you don't like, he'll take it back.

I am still waiting for the larger photos I was promised :)
12-11-2008, 03:13 PM
FastEdge

I have no intention of buying that razor. I just wanted to confirm my initial feeling about those scales. It seems my feelings are shared by most here.

Thanks everybody.
Ed M