Best Alloy

Hi,
This is my first post and I must say this is a treasure of info and fasinating people from so many walks of life. As for myself, I teach Chemistry and make violins. I shave with a Dovo lower end 5/8 carbon steel and like it very much and while not much to look at it does a great job and gives me a tremendous shave for the capitol I put into it. What anyone care to give some insight on the current "state of the art" as far as an upgrade into the best alloy currently being made? I know from using modern alloys in hand tools that there are better edges than the old standard carbon steel. I don't want anything fancy, I want function first.
Mike

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

Hi,
This is my first post and I must say this is a treasure of info and fasinating people from so many walks of life. As for myself, I teach Chemistry and make violins. I shave with a Dovo lower end 5/8 carbon steel and like it very much and while not much to look at it does a great job and gives me a tremendous shave for the capitol I put into it. What anyone care to give some insight on the current "state of the art" as far as an upgrade into the best alloy currently being made? I know from using modern alloys in hand tools that there are better edges than the old standard carbon steel. I don't want anything fancy, I want function first.
Mike

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You actually may be mistaken.

Try getting your hands on an old made in Sheffield wedge razor, and you may experience one of the smoothest shaves of your life!

Newer isn't neccessarily any better!

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

You actually may be mistaken.

Try getting your hands on an old made in Sheffield wedge razor, and you may experience one of the smoothest shaves of your life!

Newer isn't neccessarily any better!

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I have a Boker square point and a Fredderick Reynolds I also use from when I am in the mood. My FR has a Bismark type of blade but it is not a very wide blade so it loads up fairly quickly. I would like it much better if it had some more heft but at the time I bought it because of the horn scales. Historically speaking Sheffield was using the very best steel in tools so what you are saying makes perfect sense. In time I will treat myself to a good speciman from a reputable dealer but in the short term, I was wanting to try something on the stainless alloy that was Cryo tempered that was not fancy but had a great blade.
Who would be the most reputable dealer for a nice old Sheffield wedge? The older ones I have I found on Ebay, but I don't want to go that route the next time.
Also back to my original question, does anyone have a recomendation for a modern for a functional but not so fancy that I could use as a daily driver that will give me a great shave?
Mike

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

Who would be the most reputable dealer for a nice old Sheffield wedge? The older ones I have I found on Ebay, but I don't want to go that route the next time.

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Try The Invisible Edge (He's from the UK, so he carries good vintage Sheffield steel razors) or the SRP classifieds!

Regarding steel alloys, the modern stuff is most likely better, but it's the workmanship that does the difference. In the "good old days" the blacksmith knew the steel. He knew how much he could heat it, form it hammer it and so on, to get the wanted quality.

A thing I have heard of was an old blacksmith, who made a hook for lifting things, and that thing could lift much more then should be possible with that steel/dimension.

Today, there is no time for such things, so companies uses an "ready-to-go" alloy and hammers it maybe three times, compared to old times thousands of hammerings.

Now, maybe I'm just nostalgic 'bout old times knowledge in these matters, but on the other hand, old blades seems to take a very good edge!!!

Just my 2 cents

Best regards

Clas

Vintage high carbon steel is very good. Modern high carbon steel is even better. But you can't underestimate the value of the forging/heat treatment/tempering process. When it comes to blades, there can be a range of results from poor to fabulous from the very same steel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

I have a Boker square point and a Fredderick Reynolds I also use from when I am in the mood. My FR has a Bismark type of blade but it is not a very wide blade so it loads up fairly quickly. I would like it much better if it had some more heft but at the time I bought it because of the horn scales. Historically speaking Sheffield was using the very best steel in tools so what you are saying makes perfect sense. In time I will treat myself to a good speciman from a reputable dealer but in the short term, I was wanting to try something on the stainless alloy that was Cryo tempered that was not fancy but had a great blade.
Who would be the most reputable dealer for a nice old Sheffield wedge? The older ones I have I found on Ebay, but I don't want to go that route the next time.
Also back to my original question, does anyone have a recomendation for a modern for a functional but not so fancy that I could use as a daily driver that will give me a great shave?
Mike

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Dovo makes great cryo stainless razors. See my review of the Renaissance. I also have one of their 5/8 stainless blades (the 5/8 models all come from the same mold), and it's a peach as well.

I have a vintage Henckels Friodur 451 "Stainfree" . That kicks some seriouse booty. Every razor I get is compared to this one I have had a couple as good but none better. It looks like wore out junk.... prob not worth 30 bucks but I cant put it down.

I too (used to) think that the space-age-esque metals would be superior, and they probably are. If one has the money and means to fabricate a straight razor using these cutting edge (no pun intended) grades of steel or whatever. And then investing a few decades of refinement to discover the correct combinations of subtleties to make this new alloy a shaving phenomena. But it is probably not going to happen. Unless Lyn Abrams topples Barack Obama in the 2012 Presidential Election. :gl:

Firstly, thank you for your replies and sharing what you have learned.
I read Seraphim's review on the Renasaince. Nice pics.
A couple of thoughts after reading through your replies, I am not hearing that there is anything currently available that produces an edge much better than some of the better carbon steel blades of times past. Maybe there is some good effects time has on the metal graining of old blades? I don't know, as I am not a metallurgist.
I have been sharpening tools for years, and for most of us who care to admit it, this is probably the one area of shaving we will never be too good at as we can never really produce an absolutly perfect edge. I for one have no hair left on my arms as I consider an edge complete when the arm hair jumps off the edge of not just my razor, but plane irons and carving gouges. (if I shave with my Lie Neilsen Jack Plane iron, would it still be considered straight edge shaving:)
There has been a resurgance in hand tools in recent years, and the new materials are superior in both holding edges and in my opinion getting closer to the ultimate edge from my own empirical use of tools of the past and present(and are chemically, less prone to oxidation). At the same time there has been better sharpening systems that the average person can master and reach levels that for all practical purposes allow the tool do everything it was designed to do.
So for those who are at the guru level of sharpening, are the new alloys in razors able to take a keener edge? In particular, did Dovo get it right like some of the modern hand tool makers? The best plane blades of today are not completely "stainless" as they may use just enough chromium so as to not get the "gummy" effect that most stainless alloys would exhibit while sharpening. I was wondering if the same thing was happening in the straight edge world of shaving, if not I will invest my money in a Lie Nielsen low angle smoothing plane and shave with it:) and continue to enjoy my humble little Dovo with plastic scales.
Mike

I have a couple of new razors one in S30V by Robert Williams (our own Papa Bull who posted earlier) and one in ATS 34 by Bill Ellis. Both are great shavers once sharp and hold an edge very well. They take some doing to get them there.

Here is a post on knife steel which I suppose is applicable to straight razors.

so far as i can tell the best "new " steel tec for knives and razors is the PM/ CPM steels as thy are more "mixed" better and have a nice even +small grain to them before heat treat. if the maker does every thing right then that grain stays small and you can get a nice hard extra small grained edge

jsut what your looking for

right now the way PM/CPM is done there has to be some extra alloy in the steel to make it run in the spray nosels right and that (most of the time ) gets you a longer ware steel at a slight trade in how fine it is

also remember that every batch of steel (even in the same alloy ) heat treats a hair different . part of the why the old razors are good has to be from that fact that they likly got tons of steel that was all the same batch and then tuned the heat treat to it

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

... and continue to enjoy my humble little Dovo with plastic scales.
Mike

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Wait just a second!

Are you saying that somehow you are trying to justify NOT aquiring a whole boatload of razors!?

As a chemistyry teacher, you owe it to yourslelf to conduct your own research!:D


What I may suggest is that you may want to try different types of razor grind: you have a full hollow, now try a wedge, a 1/2 hollow (TI Super Gnome). If they are all honed to the same edge (theoretically) you will still find that they give markedly different shave experiences.

Don't ever just settle for one razor!:rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

Wait just a second!

Are you saying that somehow you are trying to justify NOT aquiring a whole boatload of razors!?

As a chemistyry teacher, you owe it to yourslelf to conduct your own research!:D


What I may suggest is that you may want to try different types of razor grind: you have a full hollow, now try a wedge, a 1/2 hollow (TI Super Gnome). If they are all honed to the same edge (theoretically) you will still find that they give markedly different shave experiences.

Don't ever just settle for one razor!:rofl2:

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LOL!!!!!
You are a man after my own heart, but a a chemistry teacher I always get my students to do the dirty work! :) You make a good point, my laboratory must be stocked properly!

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

LOL!!!!!
You are a man after my own heart, but a a chemistry teacher I always get my students to do the dirty work! :) You make a good point, my laboratory must be stocked properly!

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And to appeal to the chemistry side of things even more, you'll also have to aquire various lubrication specimens (i.e.-lots of soaps and creams, etc....);)

And why not mention the vaste amount of aftershaves, colognes and so on while you're at it!!:roflmao

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Originally Posted by cako72

And why not mention the vaste amount of aftershaves, colognes and so on while you're at it!!:roflmao

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Yes, yes.....RESEARCH! RESEARCH must be done!!!!