Printable View
But I'm also curious about how old this blade might be.
The beautiful black horn scales say "Sheaf Works" and the tang says "Cast Steel Warranted; large domed washers. Metal spaces, jimps top and bottom. Spanish/enlarged notch point on a quarter hollow blade; shoulderless too. Note how long the blade is; that's a Wapi for comparison.
Please note she looks better than the pics show, but lighting is bad and I didn't really take careful shots.
I'd love to hear any ideas about her age.
It looks like it has been hollowed out at some point - and I have never seen jimps on a cast steel blade; is that common? The old sheaf works in Sheffield was one of the oldest I see mentioned. The cast steel mark usually means early 1800s at the latest...
My guess is 1820s or 30s
Nice Wapi :)
Hm, it is quite possible that she was hollowed out after production. The jimps extend into the hollowed portion just before the "shoulder," so maybe those were added on later as well. There are still grind marks on the blade as well, and I suppose that also suggest aftermarket hollowing.
Maybe that extra info will be useful to someone...
Thanks for the input, Lee. I also dig my Wapi... but I might have to let her go. I'm giving that careful consideration.
Its a William Greaves, who used those markings from 1826 on. By the looks of it I would say 1850 at the latest but more likely 1826 to 1836Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
It is an odd razor in that the stamp is indicative of an earlier period while the grind and the monkey tail are of a later one. :shrug: Sheaf Works was a Greaves trademark, From the look of the grind and the monkey tail I would expect to see Greaves & Sons. I once had a short tailed razor with a Sheaf Works pressed horn handle that had Greaves without the sons. I wonder if yours could have been a blade blank that had the earlier stamping on it and laid around until it finally got finished with the later grind ? :hmmm: When I date them I go by Robert Doyle's "Collecting Straight Razors". He has a chapter on dating according to blade styles and another according to handles. The slight curve in the scales would make it, about as JMS said, in the 1830s to '50s...... maybe. :)
The jimps were not that uncommon but the blade was obviously reground at some point, look at where the blade meets the tang. it doesn't quite look right, like it had a particular grind and at a later point reground without considering aesthetics.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
Looks a little like this old john barber but for the tail
http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/001/36/b5/c3cd_3.JPG
I have two Greaves Sheaf Works razors that fit into this discussion. One is a full wedge with jimps and is marked "Cast Steel Warranted". It's blade is engraved with "W. Greaves and Sons". The other razor is about half hollow ground, also with jimps, and looks like it is the original grind. It has only "Sheaf Works Sheffield" on the tang, with nothing on the blade. My feeling is that both grinds were done at the Sheaf works, and my guess is that the "modern" semi hollow grinds were done around the time the Sheaf Works closed, about 1852. What do you think?
Thanks for chiming in, Croaker. Mine seems to be identical to the first one you've posted with the exception being that mine has been hollowed a bit. I see yours has the jimps too, which suggests that the jimps on mine may be original. I have to be honest, I didn't think I'd see another blade like that any time soon.
Very interesting, great information gentlemen!
I agree that it looks like it might have been been reground, but the extra facet between the shoulder and the tang was known as a 'long cut' shoulder, and was a fashion for a while. I don't have dates for when it was used, unfortunately. So it might just have come that way, but it is so marked that I suspect you're right about the regrind. Here's another Cast Steel, marked J.C. CAST STEEL, SHEFFIELD which shows the long cut, but in a more restrained way:
http://www.shavemyface.com/gallery/a...CAST_STEEL.jpg
Great shaver, by the way!
Chris
Nice find Holli. I don't know much about age/history but would like to see it the next time we get together. CarrieM might be able to give some info. I'll let her know of this post.
drmoss_ca,
Is the back ivory scale as perfect as the one in front? I caught myself drooling a little when I saw those gleaming white scales.
Yes it is, but I think they are bone rather than ivory when looked at under magnification. Very nice. I notice the stamp used for the words 'CAST STEEL' looks like it is the same as used on the other razors above. I believe this phrase was used up to about 1830 and then fell out of favour. It didn't signify any different manufacturing technique, and was just a marketing term as far as I can tell.
Chris
I agree that the shoulder/tang on your cast steel looks like Croaker's, but on mine, the suspected regrind extends into that area; mine differs from both of yours there. But I see what you mean, the original styling, as on Croakers, could give some insight as to the original manufacture of mine. The regrind date would remain a mystery.Quote:
Originally Posted by drmoss_ca
Thanks for sharing your info and your blade.
Sure thing Joe. At first I wasn't sure if I was going to keep her, but she's such a beauty and an amazing shaver, so she's landed a spot in my rotation. I'd be happy to let you have a good look in person. I hope we're able to meet up sometime soon. I'll be done student teaching in four weeks, so maybe I'll actually have some free time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joed
I was talking to Lisa, and we're thinking that if you and Karen can't make it here for ziti pizza, we'd like to bring the ziti pizza to you.
Just to add two the puzzle.... here is my W. Greaves & Sons Cast steel with a hollow grind and a Very! thin edge. The tail is hammered out very thin and to me looks to me like its from the first third? of the 1800's..... except the grind. When did they start to grind this thin in Sheffield?..... One of my very best shavers!
Hoglahoo..... Just woundering, I'm hoping that that very John Barber razor is going to show up in my mail in the next few days.... Was that you seling it on Ebay?.... Just hope it looks as lovely as in that pict.
Bill.....
It wasn't me but I did consider bidding on it! :hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbflat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbflat
Must ...MUST proof read:gaah:
I'm not sure exactly when it was, but I know there was a time when regrinding blades became rather popular. I think it was around 1900 or so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbflat
I found something similar in shape and possibly age.
The following specs are borrowed from this webpage: Open Razors
BLADE - MARK - struck with James Hall and Son. The 'E' has parts of the character missing and suggests much use.
BLADE - wide, full edge, straight back
BACK - quill
POINT - round
SHOULDER - single
THUMB HOLLOW - straight with diamond
TANG HOLLOW - short, thick
GRINDING - BLADE - common hollow (reground)
TANG - glazed
TANG END - glazed
HANDLE - possibly a fruit wood, slit to take the blade. Almost certainly original and most unusual. It looks 'right'. Dished iron RIVETS and iron PIN.
DATE - Hall was listed in directories 1825-1835; damaged mark punch suggests 1835.
http://www.shef.ac.uk/content/1/c6/05/90/91/HALL1.JPG
Few notes and ideas concerning this interesting topic.
1.
In his first article (1922) Lummus published a Greaves' razor quite similar to Holly's and Croaker's blades, the main differences being the shorter and wider tail of Lummus' razor and the round end of its scales (pivot side). Lummus' description (photo below): Date 1830. Maker, William Greaves & Sons, Sheffield, 1816-1850. Inscriptions, "W. Greaves & Sons," "Cast steel warranted." Handle, black horn, pressed to show "Sheaf Works".
Attachment 25235
2.
I recently purchased a razor similar to Holly's and Lummus' one. You can find some basic info at #92 of my gallery. Scales are not original and doesn't match the blade in lenght (scales are too long! damned..), but they are quite similar in shape to the Greaves published by Lummus. Apart this note (absolutely irrelevant :p), I date my blade to the 20's-30's for the very stub tail among other features. The mark on the blade ("old english") according Lummus started to be used during the same years (20's-30's). As Holly's razor, mine has jimps (both up and low). Grind: I on Henckel's chart.
Attachment 25234
